Another NY trainer caught....

If put in the same situation, would you cheat? If the answer is no then why would you defend this?

Either

A) Sciacca's barn knowingly did this

B) The investigator set them up

C) The investigator doesn't know how to identify horses and made a mistake

Feel free to tell me if there is another option

Out of those three options which seems more likely?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

If put in the same situation, would you cheat? If the answer is no then why would you defend this?

Either

A) Sciacca's barn knowingly did this

B) The investigator set them up

C) The investigator doesn't know how to identify horses and made a mistake

Feel free to tell me if there is another option

Out of those three options which seems more likely?

i would NOT cheat. ever. where would the joy in winning come from?

as for which is most likely, i have no way of knowing, as i don't know much about the trainer in question.

was the horse in question tested? was it proven that a horse about to race had been milkshaked?

[wigmore]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i would NOT cheat. ever. where would the joy in winning come from?

you have got to be kidding me...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by wigmore

you have got to be kidding me...

why?

i'm serious. i would not cheat, and can't stand that others do. if you can't win something legitimately, wouldn't it bother you? it would me.

makes me want to throw up when i read 'future hall of famer asmussen'.

[wigmore]

maybe you truly are a saint but the rest of the world is not like that...

the joy of winning is in the things you can buy with the money you've stolen

[Payson Dave]

Call me cynical but money (be it from the purse or from the betting window) may be more of a motivating factor than "the joy of winning"....
IMHO Corruption thrives most in situations involving money or power...and either of these things can be used to get the other.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by wigmore

maybe you truly are a saint but the rest of the world is not like that...

the joy of winning is in the things you can buy with the money you've stolen

lmao!!

i'll settle for buying all my toys with legit funds! i sleep just fine at night.

altho i don't think i'd qualify for sainthood, i do believe in honesty.

[The Bid]

PA, you should try the Aflutop as a sub. Its better than both, and much cheaper.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wigmore

maybe you truly are a saint but the rest of the world is not like that... the joy of winning is in the things you can buy with the money you've stolen

No, alot of the world is like that.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Danzig

why?

i'm serious. i would not cheat, and can't stand that others do. if you can't win something legitimately, wouldn't it bother you? it would me.

makes me want to throw up when i read 'future hall of famer asmussen'.

What about current or future hall of famers like Pletcher, Zito and Mandella?
Where do you draw that line?

As long as there is competition for money, people will work the edges to gain an advantage. You break the rules and get caught, you get fined and/or suspended.

If you have a beef that the penalties are too soft, why not campaign to make them tougher?

To a great extent the furor over Dutrow is a joke. He's doing his days and paying his fine, isn't he? To say he's "different" is wrong. He's NO different than the others who get fined and suspended aside from perhaps not being an overly penitent person.

Dutrow, for his faults, can flat out train a racehorse. A year ago people would point at him and Allday and claim it was the vet who moved his horses up. Well, he fired the vet a year ago and is doing ok. And Allday, aside from his outburst, is still a great vet.

Dutrow took Kip DeVille over from a guy named Netherland and moved him up. That makes him a criminal? Good trainers move up horses. It's not a crime.

Chuck Simon moved up that filly up 15-20 lengths in a few months. He's a good trainer. That's what is supposed to happen when a good trainer with a sharp eye takes a young horse from an average-to-poor trainer. They often move up.

I'm curious to know if Allday has done any work with Sumoneluveyou?

[sumitas]

The big thing to me is that a trainer not run an unsound horse. I support Dee Tee Stable, including Gary Sciacca running the NY string.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by sumitas

The big thing to me is that a trainer not run an unsound horse. I support Dee Tee Stable, including Gary Sciacca running the NY string.

What do you think the milkshake was for, the horse was thirsty. The milkshake masks other drugs in the system, either performance enhancing drugs or drugs to relieve pain...either way your logic is flawed.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

What about current or future hall of famers like
I'm curious to know if Allday has done any work with Sumoneluveyou?

dont think we can afford em..

Allday is all about Lubrisyn. I wonder if Dutrow can use Lubrisyn with his "juice". If not, maybe that is why Allday is jumping all over him.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

What about current or future hall of famers like Pletcher, Zito and Mandella?
Where do you draw that line?

As long as there is competition for money, people will work the edges to gain an advantage. You break the rules and get caught, you get fined and/or suspended.

If you have a beef that the penalties are too soft, why not campaign to make them tougher?

To a great extent the furor over Dutrow is a joke. He's doing his days and paying his fine, isn't he? To say he's "different" is wrong. He's NO different than the others who get fined and suspended aside from perhaps not being an overly penitent person.

Dutrow, for his faults, can flat out train a racehorse. A year ago people would point at him and Allday and claim it was the vet who moved his horses up. Well, he fired the vet a year ago and is doing ok. And Allday, aside from his outburst, is still a great vet.

Dutrow took Kip DeVille over from a guy named Netherland and moved him up. That makes him a criminal? Good trainers move up horses. It's not a crime.

Chuck Simon moved up that filly up 15-20 lengths in a few months. He's a good trainer. That's what is supposed to happen when a good trainer with a sharp eye takes a young horse from an average-to-poor trainer. They often move up.

I'm curious to know if Allday has done any work with Sumoneluveyou?

i do think penalties should be tougher. i also think that repeat offenders should be shown the door. i know good trainers can move up a horse, and i know that not all moves up are due to shady doings. but proven cheaters, especially when they are proven time and again, should not get the same 15 days as a first time offender. or an offender on a lesser charge.

they should have maybe an a, b, c category. X amount of c's would be equal to a lesser amount of b violations, with a being the worst. rack up enough letters to make a bowl of alphabet soup, and your license is denied. period.

why should biancone, who acts oh so hurt and offended, be able to rack up at least three different violations this year alone, with no expectations of anything other than a bit of time away??

[Riot]

What about current or future hall of famers like Pletcher, Zito and Mandella? Where do you draw that line?

Horse racing has a zero-tolerance policy on some drugs (those with no purpose other than to improve performance - cobra venom, heroin, amphetamines, etc), recognizes some drugs "could" improve performance, and that some drugs do not and cannot.

There are penalties for positives in all those categories. The penalties differ, and they differ for a reason - because all "positives" are not the same, not all positives change or could possibly change a horses performance - and not all positives could defraud the public regarding gambling.

Should Biancone (cobra venom - stops the pain of soreness) be treated differently than Pletcher (mepivicaine, at a level later changed to "allowable on race day" as it can't affect performance at that blood level), than Mandella (a non-therapeutic trace level that cannot affect performance)?

I see them differently.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Chuck Simon moved up that filly up 15-20 lengths in a few months. He's a good trainer. That's what is supposed to happen when a good trainer with a sharp eye takes a young horse from an average-to-poor trainer. They often move up.

I'm curious to know if Allday has done any work with Sumoneluveyou?

Thanks and No