Gomez

[justindew]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Funny and true!

I find the Gomez bashing on here to be even funnier.

I don't really feel like I am bashing Gomez. I just think Octave should have won.

[copying]

Just watched the Octave replay again. She got a dream trip. She saved all the ground, never had her momentum checked, and was coming with dead aim on the leaders at the head of the stretch..... just couldn't get there.

Octave couldn't pass Monmouth-loving Hysterical the way that Lute passed Monmouth-loving Idiot.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by justindew

I don't really feel like I am bashing Gomez. I just think Octave should have won.

I do too. In her wins she was put into the race far earlier than yesterday when Gomez choked her back. Maybe the plan was to take her back not to compromise Indian Vale. Who knows how far back Pletcher told Gomez to take her but It's hard to believe he told him to wrestle her down like he did. The way the race played out, IV quit after a 1/4 mile and Octave was too far out of it.

Whoever said Octave is a hanger is either basing that utterance off one race or just finding another reason to knock Pletcher.

[NoChanceToDance]

Upon first viewing i certainly thought he was too far back on Octave especially, but when viewing the race a couple of times since, he was actually in the best place possible. Many horses were getting in eachother's way in the group that was bunched up and it seems like many of the jocks made their moves far too early. The kickback was terrible. Gomez was probably in the best place pssible for a closer.

When i watched the race live, i was like "Octave would have won" but seeing it since, i agree with DrugS, Octave looks to be a hanger for me. She closed strongly to start with but in the final furlong she seemed to give in with her effort. Either she was tired or she didn't feel like going any further on her own. If there was a horse closing with her we might have seen a much closer finish.

Best two horses on the day finished first and second in this race.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I do too. In her wins she was put into the race far earlier than yesterday when Gomez choked her back. Maybe the plan was to take her back not to compromise Indian Vale. Who knows how far back Pletcher told Gomez to take her but It's hard to believe he told him to wrestle her down like he did. The way the race played out, IV quit after a 1/4 mile and Octave was too far out of it.

Whoever said Octave is a hanger is either basing that utterance off one race or just finding another reason to knock Pletcher.

I don't see anyway you can say he "strangled" her back, she was climbing like hell on the backstretch, thats what was causing her to fall back, never at any point was she being restrained to run in the back, read Pletchers quotes, she was hating the mud hitting her in the face, once she started to level off and start running she had an absolute dream trip, she just hung as she always does, she just likes to catch up to the other horses, not pass them.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I don't see anyway you can say he "strangled" her back, she was climbing like hell on the backstretch, thats what was causing her to fall back, never at any point was she being restrained to run in the back, read Pletchers quotes, she was hating the mud hitting her in the face, once she started to level off and start running she had an absolute dream trip, she just hung as she always does, she just likes to catch up to the other horses, not pass them.

I'm referring to the first 1/8 mile.

[IrishofNDMan]

Octave was one of my biggest plays of the day, dissapointing she couldn't get up. I don't think Gomez had her to far back. From watching the replay, I actually think Octave slowed down when she drew near the other horses, just my opinion.

[IrishofNDMan]

if I would have read this thread the point I just made was already talked about by Laharge.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Whoever said Octave is a hanger is either basing that utterance off one race or just finding another reason to knock Pletcher.

She hangs every race....even in the few she's won. She always look like a winner at the 3/16th pole, and more often than not in her career, she ends up finishing 2nd.

How is that knocking Pletcher? That should be a good explanation! It's Pletcher's fault the horse always looms boldly and never delivers the knockout punch in the final furlong?

[SentToStud]

To be honest, going into the race, the real 'hanger' I thought was in there was Hysterical Lady. I used to think that she was just getting beat by a better horse in N Key but then she got caught after walking in her last at Santa.

Then again, very few of the 3 yoF G1's were won very convincingly aside from Rag's Ky Oaks. I think if you ran the Distaff 10 times, you'd probably have 4 or 5 different winners.

I saw Octave taken far back at the start. That is not where she does her bet running and to think she hung yesterday is ludicrous.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

To be honest, going into the race, the real 'hanger' I thought was in there was Hysterical Lady. I used to think that she was just getting beat by a better horse in N Key but then she got caught after walking in her last at Santa.

Then again, very few of the 3 yoF G1's were won very convincingly aside from Rag's Ky Oaks. I think if you ran the Distaff 10 times, you'd probably have 4 or 5 different winners.

I saw Octave taken far back at the start. That is not where she does her bet running and to think she hung yesterday is ludicrous.

She had a full head of steam going into the stretch against two speed horses that were slowing down. Watch Pletcher's reaction. Its obvious that he thought she hung.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Octave has a very impressive resume when it comes to looking loaded at the 3/16ths pole and finishing without the punch. She actually finished 2nd in six of the first eight starts of her career.

Hystericalady, on the other hand, had a lifetime record of 10-6-0-0 on natural dirt surfaces coming into yesterday. That is obviously not the record of a hanger. However, she was NEVER rated in any of her routes on natural dirt (where she was 4-3-0-0 lifetime - injured in her only loss) and Castro decided to put a full nelson hold on her early.

Being hard rated early on by Eddie Castro and getting rank - combined with being floated out very wide by the incompetent J. Baird (the jockey of the Tiznow filly who set the pace in the Distaff and beat Octave last out) is what I believe did Hystericalady's stamina in come the final furlong - after being taken out of her game with the rating tactics, racing rank, and getting floated so wide by Baird, the gas tank was clearly on E very late.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

To be honest, going into the race, the real 'hanger' I thought was in there was Hysterical Lady. I used to think that she was just getting beat by a better horse in N Key but then she got caught after walking in her last at Santa.

Then again, very few of the 3 yoF G1's were won very convincingly aside from Rag's Ky Oaks. I think if you ran the Distaff 10 times, you'd probably have 4 or 5 different winners.

I saw Octave taken far back at the start. That is not where she does her bet running and to think she hung yesterday is ludicrous.

I think you need to watch the race in slow motion, this filly was NEVER taken back, at the break she didn't have the speed of the others and the back spray was causing her to climb, it took her a long time to get herself to level off, read the post race comments from both Gomez and Pletcher, Gomez said she was flying till 2 lengths from the winner and idled, a classic hanger. Pletcher said she had a dream trip and just couldn't get up. Octave is a nice filly to use in a tri, but tough to put on top, some horses are just like that, I have a riding horse that refuses to be the lead horse on the trail, they are just funny that way, I can guarantee you Octave will never be the boss of a herd, she's a follower plain and simple.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by merasmag

is perfect drift a gelding?

yes

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I do too. In her wins she was put into the race far earlier than yesterday when Gomez choked her back. Maybe the plan was to take her back not to compromise Indian Vale. Who knows how far back Pletcher told Gomez to take her but It's hard to believe he told him to wrestle her down like he did. The way the race played out, IV quit after a 1/4 mile and Octave was too far out of it.

Whoever said Octave is a hanger is either basing that utterance off one race or just finding another reason to knock Pletcher.

What else would you call her then? Watch not only yesterday but every other race she has run. If there is one horse down the lane that she has to catch, then sometimes she is fine. If it is multiple horses, she will usually settle for a minor share.

Just look at the form or pull up the video. its rather obvious.