Parallel universes exist

[Mortimer]

That was pretty good...really.



I grasp most of it I think.

But Einstein noodled like that.....pretty out there stuff for the time.....and some of it took many years to really proove..I think.


There seems to be parallels to the theoretical gang trying to understand all this which is so hard to understand.....to God who supposedly said not to try and think nor understand as He does because we cannot.

So even though I'm pretty much an agnostic it always seems to me the curious world of science and a supreme being can come so close to the same thing.


But I like these theories because that's how the answers come....by theorizing and trying to prove them....no?




The simple size of the macro and micro overwhelm me....but so does what never started nor will ever end.I wonder if the universe ever really started or will ever really end.


Maybe it constantly expands to run away from those who want to find its secrets.



I think the existence of past ,present and future ......one could reason out it's possibility. Maybe we move through those sometimes.

Whatever it is...the soul....the thing buried below the subconscious ......that lives on...maybe.



Maybe then we find out.

But it's great exercise for the artsy part of the noodle to try and imagine your way through it.

I take it you don't go along with Stevie?

Morton I just kind of look at it this way:

We take for granted that some things are
human constructs; That is, human inventions
that are useful for communicating and
for attempting to understand.

Take Time for example. When I was young
I thought time was something real. Little did
I realize it is a human construct. If I imagine a world
in which nothing ever happens, that is no events take
place. Time breaks down. If nothing ever happens,
if no events take place,
there is no sequence of events. So time does not exist
unless things happen.

So when people ask what happened before the big bang
I say nothing. There was no such thing as time. Well they
say, what if something did happen? And I reply if something
did happen we have no evidence that it did, and never will,
so from our point of view time did not begin until the big bang.
Time is our little
way of making sense out of events.
With no events, time makes absolutely no sense.

Same thing with space. Where does it end? It ends where
nothing exists. If I imagine a "world" with nothing in it... devoid
of anything... then space has absolutley no meaning. Space
has a human definition because "things" do exist in some frame
of reference to each other. If nothing exists, space has no
meaning.

And I am not trying to be cute here.
I am not trying to confuse anyone.
Time and space are Human constructs.
We made them up. They are ideas that
only make sense in specific situations.

This seems perfectly reasonable to me and does
not bother me in the least. It freaks my
daughter out, and I am not sure why.

I never really thought about it at her age.
Time ending and beginning. I just drooled.
And when I did start thinking about it, and
reading, it seemed very clear that we are
always creating little schemes to understand.
And the schemes just dont work in certain
situations. Schemes like time and space
can only be used under specific circumstances.

[Mortimer]

It sounds like you describe true nothing...if not for humans.



I wondered a lot what happens when one dies. How can you then be nothing...if say there is no God.It's hard to comprehend being nothing......taken out of the equation completely,but if you were nothing then you woudn't know it. .....which always brought me back to the same place.

I can undertsand what you say and it does make some sense...but even without intelligence doesn't just the existence of stars and planets mean space exists....and they must go through change...over time? Even if we didn't name space and time.....woudn't they still be there...just unnamed?


There's just something too well planned about the whole thing....there's too much rythm and rhyme out there to think there isn't a reason behnd all this.It's hard to believe we just are....just happened.

So we named time time and space space..because they are things........or maybe they're the same thing.


I don't really buy the big bang thoery....because what was there before the big bang?

I guess it goes back to your idea that space nor time nor beginning has any meaning if nothing intelligent exists....or maybe you meant if absolutely nothing exists...and if that were true then there is no argument..of course.


But since that's not the case....it's back to square one. How can one ever comprehend a start...a bing bang? How can anyone conceive of a paraellel universe or the existence of the past ,present and future happening all at the same time?

I only come back to a plan...a plan of sorts in that things work in an orderly and predictable manner...those we understand.


Maybe when we do die...maybe that's when it all come together.

But I just don't think we're mistakes..I don't think anything is...it's all explainable and predictable,but well outside our comprehenison.

Maybe there will be a lightning rod effect and physics will take that gigantic leap and somethings will become clearer...but I don't think so......it's the constant turning over of thought that really is intriguing and very intersting.

Originally Posted by Mortimer

It sounds like you describe true nothing...if not for humans.



I wondered a lot what happens when one dies. How can you then be nothing...if say there is no God.It's hard to comprehend being nothing......taken out of the equation completely,but if you were nothing then you woudn't know it. .....which always brought me back to the same place.

I can undertsand what you say and it does make some sense...but even without intelligence doesn't just the existence of stars and planets mean space exists....and they must go through change...over time? Even if we didn't name space and time.....woudn't they still be there...just unnamed?


There's just something too well planned about the whole thing....there's too much rythm and rhyme out there to think there isn't a reason behnd all this.It's hard to believe we just are....just happened.

So we named time time and space space..because they are things........or maybe they're the same thing.


I don't really buy the big bang thoery....because what was there before the big bang?

I guess it goes back to your idea that space nor time nor beginning has any meaning if nothing intelligent exists....or maybe you meant if absolutely nothing exists...and if that were true then there is no argument..of course.


But since that's not the case....it's back to square one. How can one ever comprehend a start...a bing bang? How can anyone conceive of a paraellel universe or the existence of the past ,present and future happening all at the same time?

I only come back to a plan...a plan of sorts in that things work in an orderly and predictable manner...those we understand.


Maybe when we do die...maybe that's when it all come together.

But I just don't think we're mistakes..I don't think anything is...it's all explainable and predictable,but well outside our comprehenison.

Maybe there will be a lightning rod effect and physics will take that gigantic leap and somethings will become clearer...but I don't think so......it's the constant turning over of thought that really is intriguing and very intersting.

All I am saying is the ideas of time and space are indeed just ideas.
If we did not exist there would be no ideas. Its our little struggle.
And ideas are different than actual objects. If actual objects exist,
then by OUR definition, space exists. Otherwise the idea and the word
space, does not exist even though objects do.

And as far as God and human existence that relies on a completely
different type of human thought pattern. Faith. I can see why people
do believe in a God or Gods. And I can see why people dont. And of
course it makes perfect sense that many people profess not to know.

Its just the way we go about knowing. I really dont mean this to be
mumbo jumbo. I just see human beings as unique, strange little beings that
contemplate their own existence yet do not have the ability to really
understand a whole lot of different aspects of what existence means.
And that covers life, death, and God.

Sometimes the saying Man created God in his own image makes
sense to me. But not so much if one expresses some degree of
humility and recognition that we cant know everything and never
will. It really does not bother me that much because I realize
I just dont have the ability to know, or understand, all of this.
It is beyond all my models that help me navigate the world in
front of me. Its not my fault, as far as I know, even though others
would claim I should understand.

[Mortimer]

Now ...this is not a putdown nor wise guy remark..it really isn't.


I'm just kind of disappointed I go to a man of physics to get some interesting fill in on the latest theories consistng of really great "out there" stuff.........................and I get........phooey on it????

I mean that's about the size of what you said....right?




No wonder horseracing was invented.

[Mortimer]

But I do think GhostHunters could debunk most of this stuff.

They're kind of self debunking to begin with.



So do you believe in ghosts? Does theoretical physics ever delve into that area? Serious question...you would think they would have.

Originally Posted by Mortimer

So do you believe in ghosts? Does theoretical physics ever delve into that area? Serious question...you would think they would have.

What in the heck is a ghost?
If a ghost is what many present
in movies and books then heck no
I do not personally believe ghosts exist.
But I cant prove anything.

And no theoretical Physics geek of any
stature would never delve into this
kind of stuff without having a working
definition of what the heck a ghost is.

But I do believe 30 species of
beetles have ghosts.

Really... Ghosts and souls etc... are beyond
the realm of science as there is no way to
disprove or prove something as undefined as
these things. If you come up with a working
definition, and you figure out an experiment
that can pick up this... energy??? or prove that
the energy or ectoplasm or what
ever the heck these things are do not exist,
please PM me.

Originally Posted by Mortimer

Now ...this is not a putdown nor wise guy remark..it really isn't.


I'm just kind of disappointed I go to a man of physics to get some interesting fill in on the latest theories consistng of really great "out there" stuff.........................and I get........phooey on it????

I mean that's about the size of what you said....right?




No wonder horseracing was invented.

I dont think any Physicist that really understands
the nature of Science would have a problems with
what I have stated. They might chastize me for not
understanding the math better that might help me
have the appropriate models. But then again all I
have to mention is Godel, and they realize that they
stand on very shaky ground.
But it is still fun for them.

They would however kick your behind about the
beginning of the universe as we have very good
evidence on the timing and events that most likely
took place. They would be much more comfortable
with the big bang than parallel universes, super string
theory, worm holes, etc... All neat sounding little models.

I also have a problem with many Physicists as they
have very little training in the History of Life on earth.
If they really understood the complete randomness of
vertebrates let alone human beings ever happening they
would not be so smug about insisting there is intelligent
life somewhere else. See Steven J. Gould, Wonderful
Life. The last few chapters set Physics types on their heels.
It should be required reading for anyone interested in
the real history of life and the randomness of ever producing anything
close to a human or even anything that we might consider
intelligent.

Religious types conclude this book proves humans are
extra special. But they dont like the conclusion of random events
playing any role. They must have a guiding force. It is really hard
to discuss this idea unless one reads the book. The first chapters
are not necessary, the last two or three are very convincing.

Sorry I am unable to play games with parallel universes or quantum
theory. My math is not good enough to get a realistic grip. I dont
like models without some shred of convincing modes to really be
able to analyze it. Im just not smart enough.