Support grows for Belmont slot machines

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ShadowRoll

Don't get me wrong -- I don't think that the slot machine is the panacea for the racing industry's woes that some seem to think. Those people will be mighty surprised when the slots saturation point is reached, and even tracks that do have slots begin to feel the economic pinch again. However, until that saturation point is reached, slots seem necessary for survival. A tourniquet is not an adequate substitute for surgery, but you'll still bleed to death if you don't get one. And the economic power of slots can't be denied:

http://www.marylandthoroughbred.com/...kFarmStory.pdf

What we need now, while the money from slots is still abundant, are forward thinking people who can plan for a future without slots, and who actually have the power to carry out their plans. It'll be too late when Nero starts to play his fiddle.

If you think slots hurt the sport if we have control of them then what will it be like if they are just direct competition?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If you think slots hurt the sport if we have control of them then what will it be like if they are just direct competition?

What will it be like? Just as you said. Competition. Some tracks make it, others go bust. Why should horse racing be immunized with slots? And why should horse racing benefit? No good reason. Unfair competition? Bullsh.t. There's competition in every industry. Why should there be new racetracks popping up just to appease horseowners? Plenty of tracks are surviving without slot machines and some are doing very well. Others are failing. So what? How's that different from how it has always been?

Slot machines in NY tracks is an absurd notion. What for? They already have the highest purse structure within 3000 miles. They're not going to attract better horses. Just taxing people more and paying inflated purses to the same horses.

If a racetrack can't make it, put up a mall. Or condos. The world will go on.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

What will it be like? Just as you said. Competition. Some tracks make it, others go bust. Why should horse racing be immunized with slots? And why should horse racing benefit? No good reason. Unfair competition? Bullsh.t. There's competition in every industry. Why should there be new racetracks popping up just to appease horseowners? Plenty of tracks are surviving without slot machines and some are doing very well. Others are failing. So what? How's that different from how it has always been?

Slot machines in NY tracks is an absurd notion. What for? They already have the highest purse structure within 3000 miles. They're not going to attract better horses. Just taxing people more and paying inflated purses to the same horses.

If a racetrack can't make it, put up a mall. Or condos. The world will go on.

I find it hard to believe that you actually like horse racing...do you??? Or does your "belief" in "fairness?" cloud your judgement so much that you cant see what"competition" unfettered (lottery, casinos, etc) has done to the industry that you supposedly support. Racetracks are in the gambling business so why should they not be allowed to expand their gambling menus?

Since you obviously dont understand or refuse to believe is that the economics of owning horses is slanted so far towards unprofitability especially in places like NY, that higher purses are the only salvation for the smaller owner who has little chance of having a stallion prospect or top broodmare. You know the people that put up the money so that you have a sport to bet on...

Of course the world goes on if racetracks close but that is not a trend that a fan of the sport would seem to be in favor of.

[Danzig]

i just don't see why the tracks can't have slots or other forms of gambling...why just betting the ponies? the track is a gambling place, where people make bets and hope to win money--slots, video poker, etc--why not?
obviously a poorly run place won't compete regardless of what games of chance they employ, but why is it such a bone of contention?

[sumitas]

prolly such contention because of who is greasing who's palm. the right people pay or maybe contribute to the right politicians or their family then the contention goes away.

[Rudeboyelvis]

[soap box]It's pretty clear that horse racing is the "shoe horn" to expand gambling, whether its poker rooms, slots, table games, etc. The only interest in this sport from outside the sport is it's presence and it's legality.
That said, I find it (alternate forms of gambling) hard to believe that it's presence, in and of itself, impacts racing one way or another, save for the bone they contractually throw to the industry.
The problem occurs when the "bone" get renegotiated, after the foothold is present - that's the downfall of racing...until then, it's in everone's interest to promote idiots throwing dollars down the shute, in conjunction with promoting the living hell out of our sport so one day we can stand on our own...Again.[/soap box]

I like the idea of a slots presence at BEL and AQU, along with a public campaign to explain how the handle has been increasing even though few people bother to venture out to the track - would be kinda important along with it

Originally Posted by SentToStud

What will it be like? Just as you said. Competition. Some tracks make it, others go bust. Why should horse racing be immunized with slots? And why should horse racing benefit? No good reason. Unfair competition? Bullsh.t. There's competition in every industry. Why should there be new racetracks popping up just to appease horseowners? Plenty of tracks are surviving without slot machines and some are doing very well. Others are failing. So what? How's that different from how it has always been?

Slot machines in NY tracks is an absurd notion. What for? They already have the highest purse structure within 3000 miles. They're not going to attract better horses. Just taxing people more and paying inflated purses to the same horses.

If a racetrack can't make it, put up a mall. Or condos. The world will go on.

Why is the sky blue? Why is water wet? How many fingers am I holding up?

Slots will bring more old people to the track. [/thread]

[Slewbopper]

Belmont is huge. I think they should install a full fledged casino on the ground floor, complete with shops and real restaurants and build a 2000 room hotel where the LIRR stop is, at the 1/4 pole with all rooms facing the track. There is still plenty of room for horse racing on the upper floors. For BC day they can install the bleachers on the apron, and for the Belmont they can open the infield like they do at churchill and Pimlico.

[Danzig]

i know i go to the track to spend money (and hopefully win some) and i never manage to find anything i want to buy in what passes for a shop at the tracks i've been to.

[Danzig]

i think they need to advertise big payouts and big carryovers ala powerball and its billboards. quit pretending gambling isn't a part of the sport, they need to quit trying to just play horse racing off as pageantry and beauty. come here, win big! they needed to play up the folks that hit the big pick 6 with a couple bucks a few months ago. let people know that they have a chance to win with something using more than just random luck and picking the right video poker machine. read the form, make an educated (maybe) guess. or just use your lucky numbers!

Originally Posted by Danzig

they'd have been shooed away by then, but they do come and peek sometimes...i usually keep my finger on the mouse wheel just in case, and thankfully i'm a fast reader and catch stuff (hopefully) before they do. of course they probably see/hear worse on the bus and at school!

Heck they've probably been to a rainbow party by now!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Heck they've probably been to a rainbow party by now!

....don't know what that is, but hopefully not! can imagine it's not a good thing since it's included in this conversation!

you forget, we live in the boonies. the high light of most kids around here is hanging out in the church parking lot after the football game.

[PSH]

After a absence of 25 years i returned to Belmont this past Friday (October 5th) and was amazed at how great the grand old race track looked. I was also amazed at how empty she was with a sprinkling of players for a terrible Friday card that started out with a field of 4 of which there was an entry....

It was strange in a way to be there and i could only think what a waste of a beautiful race track and huge space.... Something needs to be done and slots are an obvious answer to generate additional funds for the track and the owners...... I believe the only obstacle would be some of the residents in Floral Park......

It was amazing after almost 20 plus years of not being at Saratoga to see the transformation from an almost dead track (yes Saratoga was struggling) to what it has become today and on the opposite end at Belmont to a dying track today as far as attendence....

PSH

[ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If you think slots hurt the sport if we have control of them then what will it be like if they are just direct competition?

I don't think that slots are injurious to the sport in and of themselves. It's like holding a hammer in your hand -- the hammer could be used to build a house or hit someone over the head. The hammer itself is nuetral; the way it is used defines it as being good or bad.

I just think that slots, in the long run, won't save the sport against the other competition for the gambling dollar that you mention. And I don't want to see horse racing become a secondary interest at race tracks. Unless the racing product is promoted as something of value itself, then racetracks will simply turn into slots parlors, with less and less money dedicated to racing and, eventually, the replacement of racing altogether for the more profitable business of slots. Just imagine how many machines you could fit at Belmont if you paved over the track.

For the moment, tracks should take all the money they can get out of slots. But with that money, the sport of horse racing should be promoted so that it can stand up by itself, without the crutch that slots really are.

[MaTH716]

[quote=ShadowRoll]

I just think that slots, in the long run, won't save the sport against the other competition for the gambling dollar that you mention. And I don't want to see horse racing become a secondary interest at race tracks. Unless the racing product is promoted as something of value itself, then racetracks will simply turn into slots parlors, with less and less money dedicated to racing and, eventually, the replacement of racing altogether for the more profitable business of slots. Just imagine how many machines you could fit at Belmont if you paved over the track.

I don't think that you can look at it as secondary intrest. You are going to have people there for the slots and have people there for the horses. For the 5 hours that there is live racing, hopefully it will be promoted enough that some of the slot people might show an intrest and bet a few races. Maybe you will even get a few to become fans of the sport. The important thing is to get them to the venue. Bottom line is that all these people are GAMBLERS. Don't forget a lot of that older slot crowd are degenerate number players. So who is to say that before some of these people hit the slot room they go to the window and put in triples for every race. They want action too. They will never be fans of the sport or love it like people on this site, but they will be involved. Let's face it even the most die hard of fan doesn't want to go to Aqueduct in February. So if you could have another means of entertainment for people and money from that will be going into the pot to support the industry, what's wrong with that? You are not going to lose the segment of people that go to the track that loves racing to the slots. If anything they might stay longer or bring other people with them.

[ShadowRoll]

[quote=MaTH716]

Originally Posted by ShadowRoll

I just think that slots, in the long run, won't save the sport against the other competition for the gambling dollar that you mention. And I don't want to see horse racing become a secondary interest at race tracks. Unless the racing product is promoted as something of value itself, then racetracks will simply turn into slots parlors, with less and less money dedicated to racing and, eventually, the replacement of racing altogether for the more profitable business of slots. Just imagine how many machines you could fit at Belmont if you paved over the track.

I don't think that you can look at it as secondary intrest. You are going to have people there for the slots and have people there for the horses. For the 5 hours that there is live racing, hopefully it will be promoted enough that some of the slot people might show an intrest and bet a few races. Maybe you will even get a few to become fans of the sport. The important thing is to get them to the venue. Bottom line is that all these people are GAMBLERS. Don't forget a lot of that older slot crowd are degenerate number players. So who is to say that before some of these people hit the slot room they go to the window and put in triples for every race. They want action too. They will never be fans of the sport or love it like people on this site, but they will be involved. Let's face it even the most die hard of fan doesn't want to go to Aqueduct in February. So if you could have another means of entertainment for people and money from that will be going into the pot to support the industry, what's wrong with that? You are not going to lose the segment of people that go to the track that loves racing to the slots. If anything they might stay longer or bring other people with them.

I believe that there is very little cross-over from slots players to horse players. For the most part, the type of people that enjoy pulling a handle (or pushing a button, nowadays) aren't the type of people who enjoy learning how to read and then interpreting the DRF.

But I'm not concerned about how many people might happen to look out the window of the slots parlor and notice that there's a race track outside (and then be intrigued enough to do something about it). I think this number is too low to make much of a difference. What I'm really concerened about is the track management, who see unbelieveable profit from the slots (at least for the moment, until everyone gets them and the competition causes profits to level off), and then see a sickly racing product that is marginally profitable at best. Without someone demanding that the racing aspect of the track not be forgotten, it will be the natural inclination to lessen, not increase, promotion of racing since the promotion money is better spent on the more successful product (i.e. slots). Money should be spent to get people to come to the race track for the express purpose of playing the races. It's simply too risky for the future of racing to hope that people who are there for the purpose of playing the slot machines might also try a bet on a horse race.

I used to work at an independent book store that was an icon in the town where I grew up. A new owner came in and saw that the office supply business and the gift business were far more profitable in terms of mark-up. Eventually, he phased out the books entirely (even though the word "bookstore" was part of the store's name). Finally, the store closed, and this icon, which was doing business in my home town years before I was born, was gone forever. By then, of course, it didn't matter -- the only thing that was interesting to me was the books, anyway.

Horse racing may not be a secondary interest at the tracks with slots at this point in time, but it could become so in the future, unless the slots money is reinvested into revitalizing an interest in the sport. Increased purses are all well and good, but it's the public who need to be wooed, not just the owners and trainers. Fat purses at the expense of increasing the allure of the racing product is a short-sighted road to disaster. It doesn't work to feed a select few while letting the masses starve. Unless your attitude is "let them eat cake."

[Danzig]

[quote=ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

[b][i]
I believe that there is very little cross-over from slots players to horse players. For the most part, the type of people that enjoy pulling a handle (or pushing a button, nowadays) aren't the type of people who enjoy learning how to read and then interpreting the DRF.

But I'm not concerned about how many people might happen to look out the window of the slots parlor and notice that there's a race track outside (and then be intrigued enough to do something about it). I think this number is too low to make much of a difference. What I'm really concerened about is the track management, who see unbelieveable profit from the slots (at least for the moment, until everyone gets them and the competition causes profits to level off), and then see a sickly racing product that is marginally profitable at best. Without someone demanding that the racing aspect of the track not be forgotten, it will be the natural inclination to lessen, not increase, promotion of racing since the promotion money is better spent on the more successful product (i.e. slots). Money should be spent to get people to come to the race track for the express purpose of playing the races. It's simply too risky for the future of racing to hope that people who are there for the purpose of playing the slot machines might also try a bet on a horse race.

I used to work at an independent book store that was an icon in the town where I grew up. A new owner came in and saw that the office supply business and the gift business were far more profitable in terms of mark-up. Eventually, he phased out the books entirely (even though the word "bookstore" was part of the store's name). Finally, the store closed, and this icon, which was doing business in my home town years before I was born, was gone forever. By then, of course, it didn't matter -- the only thing that was interesting to me was the books, anyway.

Horse racing may not be a secondary interest at the tracks with slots at this point in time, but it could become so in the future, unless the slots money is reinvested into revitalizing an interest in the sport. Increased purses are all well and good, but it's the public who need to be wooed, not just the owners and trainers. Fat purses at the expense of increasing the allure of the racing product is a short-sighted road to disaster. It doesn't work to feed a select few while letting the masses starve. Unless your attitude is "let them eat cake."

absolutely a track has to keep from marginalizing the racing, and itself as a reason for being. but i think racing finally needs to come to terms with the fact that it is indeed a gambling business first, a sport second. maybe it wasn't like that way back when, but things change. since it is a form of gambling, i don't see why it has to keep itself isolated, but instead should look at other gambling areas and see which would fit in with the racing. running a brief live racing season and hoping that is enough to keep it viable from year to year may no longer be enough.

casinos have a variety of ways to make money, tracks need to come up with other ways of adding to their bottom line as well. i don't think they need to look like casinos with a track attached, but a track with a few other betting areas available.

[MaTH716]

[quote=ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

[b][i]
I believe that there is very little cross-over from slots players to horse players. For the most part, the type of people that enjoy pulling a handle (or pushing a button, nowadays) aren't the type of people who enjoy learning how to read and then interpreting the DRF.

But I'm not concerned about how many people might happen to look out the window of the slots parlor and notice that there's a race track outside (and then be intrigued enough to do something about it). I think this number is too low to make much of a difference. What I'm really concerened about is the track management, who see unbelieveable profit from the slots (at least for the moment, until everyone gets them and the competition causes profits to level off), and then see a sickly racing product that is marginally profitable at best. Without someone demanding that the racing aspect of the track not be forgotten, it will be the natural inclination to lessen, not increase, promotion of racing since the promotion money is better spent on the more successful product (i.e. slots). Money should be spent to get people to come to the race track for the express purpose of playing the races. It's simply too risky for the future of racing to hope that people who are there for the purpose of playing the slot machines might also try a bet on a horse race.

I used to work at an independent book store that was an icon in the town where I grew up. A new owner came in and saw that the office supply business and the gift business were far more profitable in terms of mark-up. Eventually, he phased out the books entirely (even though the word "bookstore" was part of the store's name). Finally, the store closed, and this icon, which was doing business in my home town years before I was born, was gone forever. By then, of course, it didn't matter -- the only thing that was interesting to me was the books, anyway.

Horse racing may not be a secondary interest at the tracks with slots at this point in time, but it could become so in the future, unless the slots money is reinvested into revitalizing an interest in the sport. Increased purses are all well and good, but it's the public who need to be wooed, not just the owners and trainers. Fat purses at the expense of increasing the allure of the racing product is a short-sighted road to disaster. It doesn't work to feed a select few while letting the masses starve. Unless your attitude is "let them eat cake."

A main problem (that has been knocked around countless times on this site) is getting more people involved in racing and then getting them to the track. It just seems that there is no new young blood that is interested in the sport. So if you added slots, one of your problems about getting people to the track might be solved. Then you could cross promote the two things. Such as make sure you have restauraunts in the track where you could offer comps for the slot players. Give them a taste of horse racing, offer them free seminars on how to read the form and give them free copies. You are not going to lose the die hard horse players to the slots, but you have to try to take advantage of the slot players that are at the venue and might be able to be swayed to enjoy racing. I remember not knowing how to play craps, and then I was in Atlantic City one night and there was a teaching type of table that explained the in's and outs. Sure enough that night I ended up at a crap table. Even if I didn't play that night, I had that knowledge for future experiences.
As far as promotions go, they barely promote it now and there are no slots. They are going to promote the slots and they should, because that's where the infusion of money is going to come from. Would you spend millions of dollars on a buisness venture and then not promote it? It would be bad buisness. The key would be cross promotion. I understand what you are saying how it is going to be promoted that instead of them having slots at the race track it will be promoted like the slot parlor has horses. For the horse players the horses will be first, for the slot people the vice-versa.
I want to believe that the horse racing industry has too much vested and is profitable enough that they just wouldn't close up shop one day.