Lies & Lying Liars that tell them

[theiman]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I do have an interest in seeing NYRA keep the franchise and I make no apologies about doing so.. In addition, I don't want take out increased as Capital Play and Empire BOTH outlined in their proposals to the state as part of their 'innovative' approaches.

And as a side note, until some else pays the bills at this website, I'll cheerlead all I want..

The title of this topic is: Lies & Lying Liars that tell them

Please explain to me what was the lie that Mr. Goodell stated in your first post.

Also joining in on the frivolity, Andrew Goodell of Capital Play:

Andrew Goodell of Capital Play, another of the companies bidding and one of whose partners helps run the Melbourne Cup, disagreed. "The difference between us and NYRA is our attendance numbers go up and theirs go down. Our revenue has doubled in the last five years, while NYRA has gone into bankruptcy," he said.


I cant argue with you on Mr. Perle's statement.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by theiman

The title of this topic is: Lies & Lying Liars that tell them

Please explain to me what was the lie that Mr. Goodell stated in your first post.

Also joining in on the frivolity, Andrew Goodell of Capital Play:

[b]Andrew Goodell of Capital Play, another of the companies bidding and one of whose partners helps run the Melbourne Cup, disagreed. "The difference between us and NYRA is our attendance numbers go up and theirs go down. Our revenue has doubled in the last five years, while NYRA has gone into bankruptcy," he said.


I cant argue with you on Mr. Perle's statement.

And do they race year round in Australia ? I think the Saratoga numbers have been pretty good the last 20 years.

Meanwhile, racing in your state has been booming

[fpsoxfan]

I can't believe Australian Racing and New York Racing are even being mentioned in the same topic. I can't say I've ever bet on a f'ing Kangaroo before. Ask ole Perlee how much money he's pumped into Bruno's pockets.
Joe Bruno is a freaking crook and that's why this thing is being held up. And guess what BENEVELOUS?? Who gives a rats ass about what you have to say about his topic to begin with.

[theiman]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

And do they race year round in Australia ? I think the Saratoga numbers have been pretty good the last 20 years.

Meanwhile, racing in your state has been booming

Saratoga is a 6 week meet. The other 46 weeks make up NYRA too.

They do have racing year round in Australia? yes.

As for my state having problems, yes California does have problems but that is not the topic on hand, and not my question to Kasept.

By the way, the 7500 who came out this past weekend to see RTR was not something I would be proud of if I were in charge of NYRA.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by theiman

Saratoga is a 6 week meet. The other 46 weeks make up NYRA too.

They do have racing year round in Australia? yes.

As for my state having problems, yes California does have problems but that is not the topic on hand, and not my question to Kasept.

By the way, the 7500 who came out this past weekend to see RTR was not something I would be proud of if I were in charge of NYRA.

And will these two other groups make things better at N.Y. tracks??? Or is thier main objective to get the state more money through VLTS...what do they know about running a thoroughbred meet...in this country?

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

And will these two other groups make things better at N.Y. tracks??? Or is thier main objective to get the state more money through VLTS...what do they know about running a thoroughbred meet...in this country?

I'm not sure, Hoff. I do know that major improvements in customer service need to be made throughout the industry in order for it to survive. It just boggles the mind how free admission and parking seems to be a cuss word to track management. Simple changes like that would make a world of difference in bringing fans back to the track.

[theiman]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

And will these two other groups make things better at N.Y. tracks??? Or is thier main objective to get the state more money through VLTS...what do they know about running a thoroughbred meet...in this country?

Magna
I guess the results for Remington 2006 and SA 2007 dont count?

CD
Arlington just released plus numbers for 2007


As for NYRA--a Chimp could run Saratoga and do great. What exactly do they do the other 46 weeks that everyone loves them?

But again, that is off topic and off from my question.

[Cannon Shell]

While NYRA has had it's share of issues over the years anyone who thinks that Empire , Capital Play, or Excelsior would be a move in the right direction just has no real grasp of the situation. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is hard for me to see how anyone other than NYRA being in charge of NY racing would be a positive move for the racing fan or bettor. The only reason that those other operations are interested in the franchise is the VLT's and they pretty much make no bones about it. While NYRA's customer service and employees have traditionally been a sore subject, they are hamstrung by many obscure state laws that prohibit them from offering free anything and have made an effort to improve customer relations.

As for the bankruptcy, if you have flown on a major US carrier in the last 20 years or so there is a good chance your life was held in the balance by a company that had declared some form of bankruptcy.

Magna is a failing company and Churchill is downsizing. Excelsior has changed partners more often than Magna presidents resign. Capital Play wants to erect a fence around Saratoga. Great alternatives.

[estreetposse]

How many millions has Frankie S. and Magna lost this fiscal quarter?

How's Gulfstream after the wonderful changes he made to the place?

and

Free admission? If you can't pay the $3 to get into the Spa, then go sit next to stinky old bastard with no teef at the local OTB.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by estreetposse

How many millions has Frankie S. and Magna lost this fiscal quarter?

How's Gulfstream after the wonderful changes he made to the place?

and

Free admission? If you can't pay the $3 to get into the Spa, then go sit next to stinky old bastard with no teef at the local OTB.

I went to Gulf about 40 times last season. I like the place.

People complain about the lack of grandstand seating? I sat there most every day. And on most of those days it was 75% empty. The grandstand was not sold out on any day I was there. On the other hand, the simulcast pit is always jammed.

The grandstand at Gulfstream is very close to the track and offers a great view.

They are not doing well with their slots. I've read they are considering removing 1/2 of them.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by theiman

Magna: I guess the results for Remington 2006 and SA 2007 dont count?

CD: Arlington just released plus numbers for 2007

As for NYRA--a Chimp could run Saratoga and do great. What exactly do they do the other 46 weeks that everyone loves them?

But again, that is off topic and off from my question.

Your question was about Goodell? His quote was indeed not as egregious as Perle's, but it struck a similar tone.. The grandest idea these guys have had from the start of the process is to paint as broad a brush as possible with soundbite smears and innuendo versus NYRA in a political atmosphere. They have failed to offer any constructive suggestion as to what they have to offer as solutions to the problems that face ALL of racing except to say "we can do great things"...

Comparing any American racing venue to Aussie racing is ridiculous. Does Australia have major league baseball, football, basketball, NASCAR, PGA golf, et al competing for TV airtime and headline space? Does Australia have a casino every 27 miles competing for its' gambling dollars? Does Australia have a fractured OTB and TV licensing problem like the US? The answer to these questions is no. My complaint with his approach to the issue is that like Perle, he can only keep dragging out old news that is no longer germane to the discussion as opposed to giving specifics as to why Capital Play is a viable alternative worth considering.

The fact is that when there was NO racino dollars in the mix with the franchise, NYRA was the ONLY party interested in running racing in NY. Anyone that wants the racing itself to be the focus of the franchise holder is backing the Association.

And a point as to the comments above...

"A chimp could run Saratoga and be successful"? Really? Any recognition for NYRA's role in making Saratoga so successful? You think that what goes on at Saratoga has been happening forever? No one seems to remember when Saratoga was a money pit for NY racing, attendance was modest, or worse, and there were calls for the meet to be abandoned in the 60's...

This may be news to you and others as it's rarely brought up. But before Saratoga as a town began its' renaissance, the track was a burden to the Association costing a fortune to maintain and drawing little in the way of the acclaim it enjoys now. It was NYRA, with Gov. Harriman, that legislated that Saratoga race a minimum of 24 a year, assuring the permanent status of the Spa, and began to heavily market the "August place to be". That's when the phenomenon of Saratoga began.

You cite Remington and Arlington as feathers in the cap of MEC and CDI, but offer no credit to NYRA for Saratoga being the crown jewel of race meets in the industry. Interesting rationale..

[theiman]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Your question was about Goodell? His quote was indeed not as egregious as Perle's, but it struck a similar tone.. The grandest idea these guys have had from the start of the process is to paint as broad a brush as possible with soundbite smears and innuendo versus NYRA in a political atmosphere. They have failed to offer any constructive suggestion as to what they have to offer as solutions to the problems that face ALL of racing except to say "we can do great things"...

Comparing any American racing venue to Aussie racing is ridiculous. Does Australia have major league baseball, football, basketball, NASCAR, PGA golf, et al competing for TV airtime and headline space? Does Australia have a casino every 27 miles competing for its' gambling dollars? Does Australia have a fractured OTB and TV licensing problem like the US? The answer to these questions is no. My complaint with his approach to the issue is that like Perle, he can only keep dragging out old news that is no longer germane to the discussion as opposed to giving specifics as to why Capital Play is a viable alternative worth considering.

The fact is that when there was NO racino dollars in the mix with the franchise, NYRA was the ONLY party interested in running racing in NY. Anyone that wants the racing itself to be the focus of the franchise holder is backing the Association.

And a point as to the comments above...

"A chimp could run Saratoga and be successful"? Really? Any recognition for NYRA's role in making Saratoga so successful? You think that what goes on at Saratoga has been happening forever? No one seems to remember when Saratoga was a money pit for NY racing, attendance was modest, or worse, and there were calls for the meet to be abandoned in the 60's...

This may be news to you and others as it's rarely brought up. But before Saratoga as a town began its' renaissance, the track was a burden to the Association costing a fortune to maintain and drawing little in the way of the acclaim it enjoys now. It was NYRA, with Gov. Harriman, that legislated that Saratoga race a minimum of 24 a year, assuring the permanent status of the Spa, and began to heavily market the "August place to be". That's when the phenomenon of Saratoga began.

You cite Remington and Arlington as feathers in the cap of MEC and CDI, but offer no credit to NYRA for Saratoga being the crown jewel of race meets in the industry. Interesting rationale..

Just a followup on some of the things you mentioned.
You are correct about Saratoga in the past, however in recent years and I am talking about the last 20-25 years, it has been the shining jewel vs a burden. It would be hard to screw that up right now by just keeping it status quo. Something on the outside could hurt it, like gas rationing, another 9/11 situation, etc, but if Saratoga keeps offering the same stakes schedule and the same marketing promos, it is a no lose situation. When I said a chimp, it was on the current Saratoga.

Australia does have sports competition with racing. Aussie Rules Football, Rugby and Soccer are big down there and pack them in to the stadiums and are on TV. They are sports we dont see up here, and probably dont care for, as I am sure they could care less for our baseball. They also have auto racing down under. Ask any Aussie who "Brocky" is and they know. FYI--Brocky was an autoracer in OZ that was killed in an accident about 2 years ago. He was as close to what the USA had in Dale Earnhardt.
As for racetracks and OTB's, the Aussies do have TAB's(which actually are regionalized by three areas in the country)So there are two of the pools that dont go into the main track pool. Aussie tracks also have on the premises licensed Fixed odds bookmakers, which drain handle from the regular pools. They pay a fee to be there but I dont know whether the fee is something simiilar to a track in California paying a fee to NYRA for taking its signal.
Yet, it is a problem for them to deal with too.

As for my mention of SA, Remington and Arlington it was a response to another poster who said what does Magna and CDI know about racing, thus I posted 3 recent tracks that had plus meets.

Finally, I doubt there would be any company or organization that would want to own and run the NY tracks if there were no slots in the future. If they did it would only be to possibly sell off one of the properties to make a killing (that is assuming the property was theres to sell)

How many tracks can you name in the last 10 years, that are new, that dont have a racino on them? Racing by itself is a tough business and a sell. Saratoga and DM are unique meets that make money by opening their doors. Thus, NYRA, being the current operator, will probably continue as the management of the tracks. Hopefully someone else, with top experience comes in to run the slots and the deal being made is a fair one for both sides.

Seems the companies bidding for NY racing are like the politicians, negative campaigning. That sucks, but I guess its what we have come to expect.

By the way, I appreciate your forum and the fact matters can be discussed and debated without personal attacks.

[pgiaco]

Just for the record...NYRA was indicted for looking the other way when TELLERS (not NYRA management) were shorting their tills and taking "loans". While I will never condone the behavior of Kenny Noe, Barry Schwartz or Terry Meycocks nothing they did would have brought the wrath of the Avenging AG Eliot Spitzer upon them were he not running for governor. NYRA became a very easy target for everyone to pile on. Charlie Hayward and Steve Duncker have done a tremendous job righting the ship.

As for being bankruptcy....Steve points out that that was engineered by NYRA to bring about a quick ruling on the land ownership issue. It is my opinion that if they did not do this the political wrangling would still be going on. Also mention that the Lottery Divisions refusal to sign off on the VLTs caused a tremendous financial hardship on NYRA.

While I'm venting I'd like to mention that Jeff Perle and Richard Bomze make me want to puke. They are both one very unfunny joke that "represents" NY horsemen. hahaha

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by theiman

The title of this topic is: Lies & Lying Liars that tell them

Please explain to me what was the lie that Mr. Goodell stated in your first post.

Also joining in on the frivolity, Andrew Goodell of Capital Play:

Andrew Goodell of Capital Play, another of the companies bidding and one of whose partners helps run the Melbourne Cup, disagreed. "The difference between us and NYRA is our attendance numbers go up and theirs go down. Our revenue has doubled in the last five years, while NYRA has gone into bankruptcy," he said.


I cant argue with you on Mr. Perle's statement.

Actually you are incorrect - his statement is a lie..since NYRA is not part of the NYS Government then it makes the whole statement an un-truth and therefore a lie...

As an example..if I said a did not sleep with your wife - yet I had- but I did not sleep..that would still be a lie...get it now?

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Actually you are incorrect - his statement is a lie..since NYRA is not part of the NYS Government then it makes the whole statement an un-truth and therefore a lie...

As an example..if I said a did not sleep with your wife - yet I had- but I did not sleep..that would still be a lie...get it now?

I did not have sex with that woman!!