Jazil Retired

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Kimmeastar

Did they retire Fernando Jara too?

We could only be so lucky. Too bad for Jazil that a horse that doesn't really get going until 12 furlongs is such a joke in this day and age. In the past horses like that were celebrated. Unfortunately now there is only one graded 12 furlong race a year and unfortunately for Jazil he made the mistake of winning it and becoming the butt of all jokes.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Too bad for Jazil that a horse that doesn't really get going until 12 furlongs is such a joke in this day and age.

Sorry man, but that horse doesn't "get going" at all. He only won the Belmont because he plodded along in last pace behind a supersonic pace (when you factor in the distance and kind of horses running that distance) High Finance was outsprinted for the lead in that race!

He is mistaken for a marathoner. Getting enough pace was far more important than having enough distance with him.

He made Giacomo look like Spectacular Bid.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Sorry man, but that horse doesn't "get going" at all. He only won the Belmont because he plodded along in last pace behind a supersonic pace (when you factor in the distance and kind of horses running that distance) High Finance was outsprinted for the lead in that race!

He is mistaken for a marathoner. Getting enough pace was far more important than having enough distance with him.

He made Giacomo look like Spectacular Bid.

LOVE the BS meter!!! I cant believe Pillow never pulled that one out.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Yeah, it was Pillow-esque

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Sorry man, but that horse doesn't "get going" at all. He only won the Belmont because he plodded along in last pace behind a supersonic pace (when you factor in the distance and kind of horses running that distance) High Finance was outsprinted for the lead in that race!

He is mistaken for a marathoner. Getting enough pace was far more important than having enough distance with him.

He made Giacomo look like Spectacular Bid.

Check his fractions, the horse can run between 24 and 25 for every two furlongs of the race regardless of the distance. The pace was never relevant for him, it was getting enough distance that 24-25 fractions could compete. You can call that plodding if you want or you can call it endurance. Really the same thing. He was hardly a superstar but he doesn't deserve the ridicule anymore than the thousands of G1 winning horses that are distance challenged do. The emphasis on speed over stamina in the game is ridiculous.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

He was hardly a superstar but he doesn't deserve the ridicule anymore than the thousands of G1 winning horses that are distance challenged do.

Yeah he does.

He won one important race with a dream setup against a nothing field of distance challenged horses and one photo finish over Tasteyville.

If he was in this years Belmont - with the pace that went about four full seconds slower - he would have been plugged home 4th or 5th at best.

But hey, maybe I'm just jealous of his cuteness?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

But hey, maybe I'm just jealous of his cuteness?

Could be it.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah he does.

He won one important race with a dream setup against a nothing field of distance challenged horses and one photo finish over Tasteyville.

If he was in this years Belmont - with the pace that went about four full seconds slower - he would have been plugged home 4th or 5th at best.

But hey, maybe I'm just jealous of his cuteness?

With Jara aboard he may have been doomed in this years Belmont. With a competent rider that rode him to a 24-25 clip the whole way he would have been on the pace and able to "plod" home and been in contention. His winning time compares quite favorably with those from the past 10-15 years so it isn't like he just benefitted from a total pace meltdown like Giacomo did in the Derby. I couldn't tell a cute horse from a deformed one so you are talking to the wrong person. You can make all the jokes you want or you could analyze the fractions of all his races and realize that when the jockey could keep him between 24 and 25 all race he was ran his best and even more so as the distance got longer. I don't have much doubt he could have been a factor in that pathetic rendition of the Suburban this year if he had been healthy.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

With a competent rider that rode him to a 24-25 clip the whole way he would have been on the pace and able to "plod" home and been in contention.

the fractions were: 24.74, 50.14, 1:15.32, and 1:40.23

If we assume he ran all 24.50's - he'd have been on a 1.5 length lead after the first quarter of this years Belmont - a 7 length lead after a half mile - a 10.5 length lead after six furlongs - a 13 length lead after a mile.

This is Jazil we are talking about!

You realize how absurd this sounds?

Naked fractions can be a little misleading - and while their have been other Grade 1 winning bums - he did it in a Classic race.

Bishop Court Hill (a son of Holy Bull) was not a classic winner. Giacomo (a son of Holy Bull) was a competitive 4th in the Breeders Cup Classic last year to three outstanding horses - finishing ahead of horses like Lawyer Ron. He had his form darkened in bad setups on West Coast tracks...and unlike Jazil, he was capable of running nice races.

[Merlinsky]

He'll have done more to earn his mares than The Green Monkey. Just to put things in perspective. I've heard both horses described as cute so I thought it was an apt comparison that should be extended a bit.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I think part of the ridicule has to do with people continually defending Jazil like he was more than he showed on the track. I can't judge the joy someone got out of his running, so I won't talk about that. But, you rarely here someone bring up Seek Gold, because people realize it was a once in a lifetime kind of thing. Jazil winning a Classic race is that as well IMO.

I guess I've never seen that, maybe it was worse on here before I was on. I've never seen anyone defend Jazil as a horse under 10 furlongs. At 10 he was OK and at 12 he was actually a decent horse. It isn't like he is a Bishop Court Hill or a whole host of other G1 winners that were far worse. I don't get the ridicule.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I think part of the ridicule has to do with people continually defending Jazil like he was more than he showed on the track. I can't judge the joy someone got out of his running, so I won't talk about that. But, you rarely here someone bring up Seek Gold, because people realize it was a once in a lifetime kind of thing. Jazil winning a Classic race is that as well IMO.

Thank you Hossy.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I think part of the ridicule has to do with people continually defending Jazil like he was more than he showed on the track. I can't judge the joy someone got out of his running, so I won't talk about that. But, you rarely here someone bring up Seek Gold, because people realize it was a once in a lifetime kind of thing. Jazil winning a Classic race is that as well IMO.

I think this sums it up for me. The Classic races are the biggest spotlight in American racing. I'd like to believe that they are won by our best horses. Of course, that's not always going to happen and there always have been and will continue to be upsets but it's sort of an extra downer for me when the upset takes place on this kind of stage. For me, it wasn't a reminder that anything can happen on any given day but rather a reminder of how the sport has fallen....when ordinary, no-talent horses are able to win these races. When people take them for what they are worth, as upsets but nothing more, it doesn't get to me as much. But when u have to read about how Jazil's return to racing in 2007 is good for the sport, it makes u realize how bad things are.

[Danzig]

fees set for jazil and invasor.

12.5k for jazil (too high imo, but then, aren't they all??)
35k for invasor.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The emphasis on speed over stamina in the game is ridiculous.

I agree with this as a general point, but not as it applies to this particular horse. Speed is overemphasized in the game today, and unfortunately it does often come at the expense of stamina (although I suppose tracks like Del Mar and Keeneland may be completely reversing this scenario). Years ago stamina was valued more than it has been in the last 10-15 years, and personally I would like to see it more highly valued again, but I don't think there was ever an era in the game in which speed wasn't ALSO valued.
Therefore, I don't think there was ever an era in this game in which a horse of Jazil's "ability" would have been highly valued. Being able to run fast has ALWAYS been a fairly important part of the sport.....and Jazil just couldn't do that.

[Thunder Gulch]

Honestly thought he retired last year.

[my miss storm cat]

The official UAE press release, for Ms. Sightseek..... diva.

Jazil retired to join Invasor at Shadwell Farm in 2008
(no author listed)


Sheikh Hamdan bin Rashid al Maktoum’s American classic winner Jazil will stand at stud in 2008 next to Dubai World Cup (Gr.1) champion and reigning American Horse of the Year Invasor at the sheikh’s Shadwell Farm in Lexington, Kentucky.

Winner of the Belmont Stakes (Gr.1) last year and a half brother to this year’s Belmont and Kentucky Oaks (Gr.1) winner Rags to Riches, Jazil was retired to avoid the risk of further injury, according to a press release issued Tuesday by Shadwell.

“After discussion with Sheikh Hamdan, we felt it in the best interest of the horse to retire him,” said Shadwell Vice President and General Manager Rick Nichols.

Stud fees have not been announced for either Jazil, a son of Seeking the Gold who incurred a bruised cannon bone and was rested for the second half of 2006 following his Belmont win, or Invasor.

Produced by Better Than Honour, a juvenile Grade 2 winner by Deputy Minister, Jazil won a maiden race at Aqueduct in his two-year-old season before developing into a top quality competitor last year. A closing second in the Wood Memorial Stakes (Gr.1), Jazil rallied from last in a 20-horse field to finish a good fourth in the Kentucky Derby (Gr.1) before defeating Bluegrass Cat and Sunriver in the Belmont.

Trained by Kiaran McLaughlin, Jazil won twice and placed five times in 11 starts while earning US$890,532.

A handsome bay colt that McLaughlin said was one of his favorites due to his kind nature , Jazil is from an outstanding female family. His dam’s half sister Maryinsky produced this year’s leading European three-year-old filly, Peeping Fawn, while his second dam is multiple Grade 1 winner Blush With Pride and his third dam is American Broodmare of the Year Best in Show.

El Gran Senor, Try My Best, Xaar, Spinning World, Aldebaran and Chimes of Freedom descend from Best in Show.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

A handsome bay colt that McLaughlin said was one of his favorites due to his kind nature , Jazil is from an outstanding female family. His dam’s half sister Maryinsky produced this year’s leading European three-year-old filly, Peeping Fawn, while his second dam is multiple Grade 1 winner Blush With Pride and his third dam is American Broodmare of the Year Best in Show.

El Gran Senor, Try My Best, Xaar, Spinning World, Aldebaran and Chimes of Freedom descend from Best in Show.

What a family too.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

What a family too.

Does anybody know anything about Better than Honour's 2yo colt, Casino Drive? I haven't heard if he has made it to the track yet, or for that matter which barn he is even in.
I'm curious to see how he does given his impressive pedigree and very close relation to Rags.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Check his fractions, the horse can run between 24 and 25 for every two furlongs of the race regardless of the distance...

He would have made a great free-legged pacer.