A new poll - for men only

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

It's really not about bitching and moaning for the sake of doing it. Surely by watching the graded races at Del Mar yesterday that were not on the turf, you could see that there is a problem. Like Miraja said, it's not about blanket statements for either side. Most fans are all for safety, but there has to be some other way than what is going on at Del Mar right now. There is nothing even remotely close to exciting about the racing there right now.

It's pretty exciting when you win.

I could care less if they run the mile and a quarter in 2:20.. if I have the winner, then I'm a big fan.

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

That's a great response. Listen, I'm a gambler as well, it's fine. but I am also a fan of the sport and there is nothing exciting for a fan of the sport on Del Mar's poly right now. I await another brilliant retort....

so I'm an idiot you say.. fine..

everybody's in the game for different reasons. What if I don't care about the times, or who's horse of the year, or if so and so gets his grade 1.

What keeps this sport going is gambling.

People are still betting on it.. so bitching and moaning and beating this dead horse is not going to change it.

damn.. deal with it.

yours truly,
great and brilliant.

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't know you well enough to have an opinion on your idiocy, but I think you are sort of missing the point. This is NOT a gambling concern that I am talking about. I realize people are gambling on it, people will gamble on anything. I'll deal with that if NY ends up going to poly.

It's a racing issue. the racing isn't interesting. You obviously aren't a fan, which is fine. But as a fan, it sucks. Not bitching and moaning, just saying it sucks.

cool

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't know you well enough to have an opinion on your idiocy, but I think you are sort of missing the point. This is NOT a gambling concern that I am talking about. I realize people are gambling on it, people will gamble on anything. I'll deal with that if NY ends up going to poly.

It's a racing issue. the racing isn't interesting. You obviously aren't a fan, which is fine. But as a fan, it sucks. Not bitching and moaning, just saying it sucks.

i simply don't get it either. specifically what sucks? I thoroughly enjoyed it and i consider myself a fan. probably some of the people that set a Del Mar wagering record yesterday also enjoyed it.
is it all because of the final time?

[Cajungator26]

I hate it that chicks can't have a say in this thread.

Oops.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I hate it that chicks can't have a say in this thread.

Oops.

hell, chicks werent even supposed to read this thread! i guess chicks never were able to follow instructions very well. so, go ahead and pipe in.

would you choose a 385 lb female stripper, or dmr poly?

[deltagulf]

me too i'll take the race. 385 is just to much.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

hell, chicks werent even supposed to read this thread! i guess chicks never were able to follow instructions very well. so, go ahead and pipe in.

would you choose a 385 lb female stripper, or dmr poly?

Do I look like the type to follow instructions?

[philcski]

I'll take the size-challenged chick that was terrible!

[viscount26]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Do I look like the type to follow instructions?

Not from what I observed

[deltagulf]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Do I look like the type to follow instructions?

no.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't know how else I can say I am not talking about wagering. The race was a joke. I don't really know how else to explain it other than say if there was no poly. If I told you Student Council won the Pacific Classic you would tell me I am nuts.
Well he did, strictly because of the poly. Also, since he had never really showed a fondness for the poly, it just doesn't make sense. I know, Jerry Brown liked him, blah blah. Maybe I am a bit of a traditionalist but it has ruined racing out west for me. And this is not me being sour because I lost. I made one bet at Del Mar yesterday, a turf race. I won't tell you if I hit it or not, because I wouldn't want to be a dreaded redboarder. You like it, because you have had some success on it. I tend to think your opinion might be different if you didn't. We saw how quick Titan's changed.

Maybe I'm missing the point too -- but I enjoyed yesterday's race.

On poly, on dirt, anywhere -- that would have been a stupid weak Pacific Classic. I do understand those lamenting how speed horses don't hold their speed on some of the artifical surfaces, but in a way, I don't think that's an entirely bad thing for the future of the breed.

Someone above (cm?) mentioned that he used to love watching horses blaze out and dare someone to catch them -- maybe we're talking specifically about Del Mar only with that feeling, but I certainly enjoyed watching horses do that, and at a place like Arlington, still find it thrilling to watch that happen. Obviously Del Mar's surface needs to be worked on a bit and they'll need to adjust it to the weather/other outside factors, but I consider myself a "fan" of the game and I still enjoyed watching yesterday's race. It looked like a crapshoot going in, and looked like a crapshoot coming out, so I'm not seeing the problem. When you've got a field comprised of mostly glorified West Coast mid-to-high-end claimers, isn't Student Council winning a GI sort of the thing you should expect to be possible?

[fpsoxfan]

Sure, it was nice to see Student Council win, but the final time is what did it for me. Does it even the playing field? Yes Does it make us all handicap differently? Yes Is it safer for horses? Most likely Is it real horse racing?
No way

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

If you think the poly will change the future of the breed I have a bridge to seel you also. Maybe I'm too simplistic. Student phucking Council just won the Pacific Classic. Sorry if seeing his name up there with past winners of the Pacific Classic bothers me. It used to be a prestigious race. Now it's the Claiming Crown Classic.

You must still be really pissed off about Sutra, too, eh?

**** happens.

Horses who shouldn't be GI winners become GI winners from time to time.

[booner]

I'll take the race. Something about a 385 pound woman spinning around a pole on an elevated stage doesn't sound appealing.......but maybe it's just me.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Apples and oranges and you know that. Keep trying.

I don’t know that.

Explain.

Why doesn’t Student Council deserve to be a Grade I winner? Because of the slow time? Because of the way the race was run? Sutra’s was exactly the same thing, she accidentally won a Grade I race. I don’t see anything different about it. Is it the shape of the race, the way speed stopped, or the strength of the field? I could be talking about either Sutra or Student Council with those questions.

Stuff happens, and horses win races that they shouldn’t win on paper, and don’t deserve to win on paper. It’s no different than a horse winning from 20 lengths off in a six furlong Grade I after three horses go the opening half in 44 1/5 – the race is just given to them.

Obviously I’m missing the difference in what you’re saying, because I’m not seeing any legit reason to moan about Sunday’s result still.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I don’t know that.

Explain.

Why doesn’t Student Council deserve to be a Grade I winner? Because of the slow time? Because of the way the race was run? Sutra’s was exactly the same thing, she accidentally won a Grade I race. I don’t see anything different about it. Is it the shape of the race, the way speed stopped, or the strength of the field? I could be talking about either Sutra or Student Council with those questions.

Stuff happens, and horses win races that they shouldn’t win on paper, and don’t deserve to win on paper. It’s no different than a horse winning from 20 lengths off in a six furlong Grade I after three horses go the opening half in 44 1/5 – the race is just given to them.

Obviously I’m missing the difference in what you’re saying, because I’m not seeing any legit reason to moan about Sunday’s result still.

G1 races in the Classic Division are held to a far greater level of scrutiny than races from any other division (especially 2yo fillies). These races are supposed to be the best of the best.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

There is no way either one of us are going to chnge our opinion on this, so let's just agree to disagree.

Ok, if I don't explain anything that I think while asking what the problem is, then could you explain?

You're not explaining why it's different when Sutra wins a ridiculous Grade I than when Student Council wins one, except to say that it's apples and oranges, which I don't think it is. So I'm asking.

If you don't like the question and think I'm just badgering you, then I'll shut up.

I'm only asking for the sake of trying to understand because I'm clearly not getting where you're coming from.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't know how else I can say I am not talking about wagering. The race was a joke. I don't really know how else to explain it other than say if there was no poly. If I told you Student Council won the Pacific Classic you would tell me I am nuts.
Well he did, strictly because of the poly. Also, since he had never really showed a fondness for the poly, it just doesn't make sense. I know, Jerry Brown liked him, blah blah. Maybe I am a bit of a traditionalist but it has ruined racing out west for me. And this is not me being sour because I lost. I made one bet at Del Mar yesterday, a turf race. I won't tell you if I hit it or not, because I wouldn't want to be a dreaded redboarder. You like it, because you have had some success on it. I tend to think your opinion might be different if you didn't. We saw how quick Titan's changed.

Student Council didn't win strictly because of the poly. You're a good handicapper, and by now you surely have seen that he and Awesome Gem had the best TG#'s. Surely you can also recognize that he is impeccably bred for distance and that he was steadily getting better. Is it really such a shock that a horse with that talent and breeding would excel at 10 furlongs against a highly questionable group. Based on your traditionalist viewpoint, who would have been a more deserving winner from that field? Have you never seen upsets on dirt? If they ran the race on dirt and anyone other than Lava Man won, would you be calling that a joke as well? You should because there were no proven horses with classic distance GR1 credentials. Only Lava Man, and his credentials are somewhat suspect for reasons that have been reviewed over and over.

To me the joke is that Student Council was given less respect than horses like AP Xcellent, Big Booster, Albertus Maximus? The other joke is that more people couldn't see the writing on the wall in terms of Lava Man sending him off at even money after having had to gut out a win against AP Xcellent who has absolutely zero GR1 credentials.

I would just suggest that you might want to be a little more open minded and view the result in a context that is not so heavily colored by the surface. I think the surface effected the final time and little else about the outcome other than perhaps some of the margins.

[Cannon Shell]

The Pacific Classic was going to be a bad Grade 1 regardless of surface. When you line up a group of optional claimers, Grade 3 wanna be's and a 7 year old legit Grade 1 horse who seemingly has seen better days then are shocked by the result? It is not like he beat Invasor and Ghostzapper. Lava Man stopping does not really make a good case for anything because in many of the races in which he has been beaten he often fades badly. Some people despise the surface which is entirely their perogative. Others seem willing to accept the surface as it is, which is a work in progress. It certainly changes the way the game is played. But if you dont like it you better find something else to watch or bet on because it is coming to both NY and KY sooner than you think.