Del Mar - Initial thoughts?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Riot

Can we compare times on turf to times on dirt? Times at Kee (old dirt surface) to times for same distance at Calder?

When you compare that 47 1/5th fraction (FOR 10K CLAIMING FILLIES!) to the 50 3/5th fraction (for older males in a 75K ALW race) --- you are comparing fractions run on the same day over the same track.

Please explain to me what on earth you are talking about in that quote?

[Riot]

Please explain to me what on earth you are talking about in that quote?

Absolute raw time is not that important to my handicapping.

Edit: that statement is as overtly simplistic as it seems, DrugS, in the sense that I don't particularly care what raw times are - I just want to find the fastest horse that day, that track. The discussions by the professional figure makers (Brown, Beyer, etc) last year regarding how they were going to deal with artificial surfaces within the context of their figure making are obviously critical to those of us who use those products.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Yes, but you brought up comparing different tracks and different surfaces.

The fractions I compared, occured on the same surface, at the same track, on the same day.

[Riot]

As a veterinarian, I fully embrace and support the use of artificial surfaces as safer for racing, and I'll hold that opinion unless overwhelming evidence to the contrary appears at some future time (which I doubt, based upon history of use in other countries. But other countries are not the US).

Certainly I expect that viewpoint to influence my acceptance of same from a wagering standpoint. But I still see the varients inherent within artificial surfaces as just another handicapping opportunity

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Cool.

I'd like to hear your position on pace....and how to judge it.

[letswastemoney]

I think artificial surfaces give some horses, such as Nashoba's Key, a chance to perform in races we wouldn't otherwise see them in

[_ed_]

Originally Posted by Riot

As a veterinarian, I fully embrace and support the use of artificial surfaces as safer for racing, and I'll hold that opinion unless overwhelming evidence to the contrary appears at some future time (which I doubt, based upon history of use in other countries. But other countries are not the US).

Certainly I expect that viewpoint to influence my acceptance of same from a wagering standpoint. But I still see the varients inherent within artificial surfaces as just another handicapping opportunity

I'm not a vet but I hold the same opinion.

I've heard that Arlington's field sizes have increased substantially. I'll be interested to see if that's the case at Del Mar too, look forward to seeing some figures.

I'm jealous of everyone who has all-weather tracks, here we have to race on swampy turf all winter. It's not fun.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Riot

As a veterinarian, I fully embrace and support the use of artificial surfaces as safer for racing, and I'll hold that opinion unless overwhelming evidence to the contrary appears at some future time (which I doubt, based upon history of use in other countries. But other countries are not the US).

Certainly I expect that viewpoint to influence my acceptance of same from a wagering standpoint. But I still see the varients inherent within artificial surfaces as just another handicapping opportunity

We need time for the jockeys and trainers to develope some predictable patterns.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

We need time for the jockeys and trainers to develope some predictable patterns.

I am very excited about next year's Triple Crown trail.

How will the cream of the California crop, filtered via synthetic surfaces, perform when they come east?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Riot

I am very excited about next year's Triple Crown trail.

How will the cream of the California crop, filtered via synthetic surfaces, perform when they come east?

What do you mean by filtered because I don't think Domincian's subsequent races since the Blue Grass indicate he belongs anywhere near the wire with Street Sense?

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Riot

I am very excited about next year's Triple Crown trail.

How will the cream of the California crop, filtered via synthetic surfaces, perform when they come east?

They should have a stronger bottom and if they take to the dirt they will be hard to beat.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Riot

Edit: that statement is as overtly simplistic as it seems, DrugS, in the sense that I don't particularly care what raw times are - I just want to find the fastest horse that day, that track. The discussions by the professional figure makers (Brown, Beyer, etc) last year regarding how they were going to deal with artificial surfaces within the context of their figure making are obviously critical to those of us who use those products.

I don't understand what final time speed figures (like Brown and Beyer make) have anything to do with fractional times.

By saying that you don't care what those raw fractions are---you are saying that you think pace is a meaningless handicapping factor---and it has no impact at all on the outcome of a horse race.

It might seem as though I'm giving you a hard time, but by dismissing those fractions, you are basically saying pace doesn't matter. Obviously, the best way to judge pace is to compare fractions with those in other similar races, on the same surface and card.