Hollywood Gold Cup

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Gander

I'll take a horse like Lava Man over the over-rated Flower Alley anyday

I agree 100%. While Lava Man may not have beaten the best grade 1 fields out there, he hasnt ducked a single horse and his schedule has been made very clear. Those with the traditional East Coast bias are welcome to send thir horses out West to take him on before the BC, but have chose not to. The mighty Seek Gold sure looked great on Saturday! LOL!

Lava Man has won 3 grade 1's (winning on both surfaces) plus 2 other races while the only thing Flower Alley has done is beat Gold and Roses in a listless glorified NJ allowance race.

Sure Flower Alley is top notch but it doesnt do the fans any good keeping their favorite horses in their barns. We've seen Flower Alley once in 9 months, while Lava Man has run 5 times in that timeframe. You tell me if this is even a contest right now?

Gander, you should have heard the cheers Lava Man received when he returned to the Winners Circle, the fans out here love him, he looked real tired but it was a miserably hot day, he has those eyes that just look at everyone around, he knew he won and was proud. It's great to see a horse the fans can cheer for, he's becoming a real legend out here, all the sports pages had an article on him.

[Buffymommy]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Gander, you should have heard the cheers Lava Man received when he returned to the Winners Circle, the fans out here love him, he looked real tired but it was a miserably hot day, he has those eyes that just look at everyone around, he knew he won and was proud. It's great to see a horse the fans can cheer for, he's becoming a real legend out here, all the sports pages had an article on him.

Now isn't that a horse we want to be HOY? I am cheering for him. He ran a game race to a horse carrying a lot less weight than him. So far he has my vote for HOY considering he has run all year. Not to say that my mind may change later on about this, but for now Lava Man is on the top of my list for HOY.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Buffymommy

Now isn't that a horse we want to be HOY? I am cheering for him. He ran a game race to a horse carrying a lot less weight than him. So far he has my vote for HOY considering he has run all year. Not to say that my mind may change later on about this, but for now Lava Man is on the top of my list for HOY.

If he can keep this up, he has got my vote too without a doubt. I LOVE this horse. I was SCREAMING for him at the OTB this weekend. When he stumbled out of the gate like that, carrying that much weight, I told my mom that if he won he was a great horse. He won and in my eyes he is a great horse. This horse had more heart than the rest of the field combined. He has displayed enormous versatility in his running styles and on the different surfaces he runs and his courage leaves me in awe. He was an underdog who worked his way to the top the hard way. He isn't a blueblood, he is just a horse who loves to run and win. How can you not root for this guy?

[ateamstupid]

I gotta see this horse do something outside of CA. Until he does that, to me, he's a very good west coast horse. Not a great horse. The JCGC was just pitiful. Maybe he was off form, or maybe he can't do anything on a real racetrack.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

If he can keep this up, he has got my vote too without a doubt. I LOVE this horse. I was SCREAMING for him at the OTB this weekend. When he stumbled out of the gate like that, carrying that much weight, I told my mom that if he won he was a great horse. He won and in my eyes he is a great horse. This horse had more heart than the rest of the field combined. He has displayed enormous versatility in his running styles and on the different surfaces he runs and his courage leaves me in awe. He was an underdog who worked his way to the top the hard way. He isn't a blueblood, he is just a horse who loves to run and win. How can you not root for this guy?

O'neill has done a great job with this horse. But he's (Lava Man) got to learn to ship well so that he can perform outside of Cali. If he can do that then he'll really be the goods...until then poeple will always knock him as a california specialist.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

O'neill has done a great job with this horse. But he's (Lava Man) got to learn to ship well so that he can perform outside of Cali. If he can do that then he'll really be the goods...until then poeple will always knock him as a california specialist.

He's got to do something outside of California? The horse has won 2 Million dollar races, a 750,000 and 2 other graded races this year. I don't think he really needs to leave town. I still say if he is so weak why would the good horses race in the rast of the country for less?

[Buffymommy]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

He's got to do something outside of California? The horse has won 2 Million dollar races, a 750,000 and 2 other graded races this year. I don't think he really needs to leave town. I still say if he is so weak why would the good horses race in the rast of the country for less?

It is a bias thing. Don't bother arguing. Everyone will jump on you with the "if a horse can't win outside of Cali, they are not great". Don't bother with an argument.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Buffymommy

It is a bias thing. Don't bother arguing. Everyone will jump on you with the "if a horse can't win outside of Cali, they are not great". Don't bother with an argument.

Buffy i am not saying he's not great. I am saying he doesn't ship well and therefore doesn't perfrom well outside Cali. therefore he leaves himself open to being labled a specialist.
Much in the same way that my horse performs beautifully at home and freaks out at a show--

[Buffymommy]

I say give him one more prep in mid-late September then to the BCC. Then give him off for a few months. They need to talk to Drifty's connections.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

He's got to do something outside of California? The horse has won 2 Million dollar races, a 750,000 and 2 other graded races this year. I don't think he really needs to leave town. I still say if he is so weak why would the good horses race in the rast of the country for less?

I'm not knocking his ability, quite the opposite. But the breeders' cup (and lets face it unless he performs well there he can forget HOY) isn't in California, and the trainer admits the horse does not ship well, and cannot settle outside of his familiar environment...that is a serious problem because it makes it very difficult to showcase his talent and ability. And california tracks are different than east coast tracks so there will always be individauls who will call him a specialist...not that he is or isn't. If he traveled well then he could answer that question--that is all I am trying to say.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

I'm not knocking his ability, quite the opposite. But the breeders' cup (and lets face it unless he performs well there he can forget HOY) isn't in California, and the trainer admits the horse does not ship well, and cannot settle outside of his familiar environment...that is a serious problem because it makes it very difficult to showcase his talent and ability. And california tracks are different than east coast tracks so there will always be individauls who will call him a specialist...not that he is or isn't. If he traveled well then he could answer that question--that is all I am trying to say.

Paisjpq, I might agree with you except for the fact that Lava Man has done so well on the grass. You can hardly call a horse a one-track specialist if he is dominating over two totally different surfaces. Moving back and forth between dirt and grass is way more different than moving between different dirts. IMO, Lava Man has already passed all the versatility questions. Shipping successfully isn't nearly as impressive as winning Grade I's on both dirt and grass.

I'm not even sure Lava Man has to go to the BCC to win HOY. They could take the Mineshaft route and bypass it entirely. (they could find SOMETHING that needs a couple of months of rest to heal.) If Lava Man adds the Pacific Classic to his undefeated year and then goes to the sidelines, it would not be easy for another horse to win HOY. I can't imagine any horse besides Bernardini, Flower Alley, Invasor and perhaps Jazil having a shot. And for any of those horses to have a chance, he would have to win everything from here out including the BCC.

--Dunbar