Hollywood Gold Cup

[Gander]

I'll take a horse like Lava Man over the over-rated Flower Alley anyday

I agree 100%. While Lava Man may not have beaten the best grade 1 fields out there, he hasnt ducked a single horse and his schedule has been made very clear. Those with the traditional East Coast bias are welcome to send thir horses out West to take him on before the BC, but have chose not to. The mighty Seek Gold sure looked great on Saturday! LOL!

Lava Man has won 3 grade 1's (winning on both surfaces) plus 2 other races while the only thing Flower Alley has done is beat Gold and Roses in a listless glorified NJ allowance race.

Sure Flower Alley is top notch but it doesnt do the fans any good keeping their favorite horses in their barns. We've seen Flower Alley once in 9 months, while Lava Man has run 5 times in that timeframe. You tell me if this is even a contest right now?

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Gander

I'll take a horse like Lava Man over the over-rated Flower Alley anyday

I agree 100%. While Lava Man may not have beaten the best grade 1 fields out there, he hasnt ducked a single horse and his schedule has been made very clear. Those with the traditional East Coast bias are welcome to send thir horses out West to take him on before the BC, but have chose not to. The mighty Seek Gold sure looked great on Saturday! LOL!

Lava Man has won 3 grade 1's (winning on both surfaces) plus 2 other races while the only thing Flower Alley has done is beat Gold and Roses in a listless glorified NJ allowance race.

Sure Flower Alley is top notch but it doesnt do the fans any good keeping their favorite horses in their barns. We've seen Flower Alley once in 9 months, while Lava Man has run 5 times in that timeframe. You tell me if this is even a contest right now?

Do you really think Seek Gold is a top east coast horse?

I thought it was cool that he won the Stephen Foster, but I don't think he's close to a Top Older horse...

The HOY is not won in the early part of the year, may not be right, but that's the way it is, besides Lava Man's a Gelding, he has to earn on the track, what do you think Flower Alley will make with track and stud fees, alot more than Lava Man, so I would definetely rather own him...

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Do you really think Seek Gold is a top east coast horse?

I thought it was cool that he won the Stephen Foster, but I don't think he's close to a Top Older horse...

The HOY is not won in the early part of the year, may not be right, but that's the way it is, besides Lava Man's a Gelding, he has to earn on the track, what do you think Flower Alley will make with track and stud fees, alot more than Lava Man, so I would definetely rather own him...

I'm not talking about owning a stallion over owning a gelding, I'm talking about the respective horses and Lava Man would make me a hell of a lot prouder to own than Flower Alley, and even if I was looking for a stallion prospect it sure as hell woudn't be Flower Alley.

[Gander]

I think anybody on this board would take ownership in just about any horse, and I didnt think we were arguing who would be a better horse to own. Obviously with the money that comes out of breeding any horse with a functioning pecker would be a better own than a gelding.

The older horse division is so weak this year that Seek Gold was able to win one of the premier older horse events in the Stephen Foster and horses like Invasor are looking like Skip Away. So sure, I would consider Seek Gold one of the top horses and he went out West and got whacked.

The HOY may not be won in the first half of the year but if Lava Man wins his next 2 races that would give him 4 grade ones for the year and that is very hard to topple, unless Flower Alley wins the Classic. Hes the only horse on the East Coast who impresses me but its hard to get excited about a horse who runs once in 9 months.

[Gander]

Gander, you should have heard the cheers Lava Man received when he returned to the Winners Circle,

Would have given me goosebumps.

And as good as Flower Alley is, he'll never win the hearts of fans like Lava Man has and will continue to do. He reminds me of a less talented Ghostzapper. Sure you can say "wow, what a nice horse", but nobody is ever going to remember him for having a huge heart nor will he be a fan favorite.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Gander

Gander, you should have heard the cheers Lava Man received when he returned to the Winners Circle,

Would have given me goosebumps.

And as good as Flower Alley is, he'll never win the hearts of fans like Lava Man has and will continue to do. He reminds me of a less talented Ghostzapper. Sure you can say "wow, what a nice horse", but nobody is ever going to remember him for having a huge heart nor will he be a fan favorite.

I thought FA was very gutty in the Breeders Cup...

[Buffymommy]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

I thought FA was very gutty in the Breeders Cup...

That was last year though. Not saying he isn't a good horse.

But as the song goes "what have you done for me lately?"

I like Flower Alley. He is a good horse. What I think is going to happen in the BCC if Lava Man and Flower Alley go is that you are going to see a fresh horses vs a tired battled weary horse. I dont think it is going to be a fair match. Flower Alley finish ahead of Lava Man on BCC. If they were to face each other in August at some other track other than a Cali or east coast track I would take Lava Man. But come Nov, Flower Alley will be fresh and Lava Man will be tired. Advatage Flower Alley.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I like Flower Alley. He is a good horse. What I think is going to happen in the BCC if Lava Man and Flower Alley go is that you are going to see a fresh horses vs a tired battled weary horse. I dont think it is going to be a fair match. Flower Alley finish ahead of Lava Man on BCC. If they were to face each other in August at some other track other than a Cali or east coast track I would take Lava Man. But come Nov, Flower Alley will be fresh and Lava Man will be tired. Advatage Flower Alley.

Flower Alley gets a huge advantage of two big races Whitney and Woodward over his racetrack, Saratoga.

[Gander]

Of course the fresher horse will have the advantage. Not doubting his talent, its there. But he will never capture the hearts of fans the way this reformed claimer Lava Man has. Hes just one of the many exceptional horses the Silver Fox trains. He will be forgotten. Lava Man wont. We'll still be talking about him 10 years from now. Heck he may even still be racing

This could all be a moot point if Bernardini is what many think he is. He might just destroy both of them.

[dr. fager]

I have no problem with them giving the horse a break, FA raced 10 times entering this year. They're animals not machines, and he earned a break in my opinion.

[irishtrekker]

When is Bernardini scheduled to run next? Haskell? Travers?

Seems hard to know what to think of him yet -- he beat a battered Bro Derek, a tired SNS, and a lot of others who weren't all that impressive. I'm not saying he's not good, just that he hasn't faced much tougher competition than anyone else yet, imho. Hard to say if he can stack up against Lava Man, let alone Flower Alley if he's fit and ready.

But I'm with Gander: Lava Man is great for the sport. His dirt+turf wins alone make a good argument for HOY to me.

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

When is Bernardini scheduled to run next? Haskell? Travers?

Seems hard to know what to think of him yet -- he beat a battered Bro Derek, a tired SNS, and a lot of others who weren't all that impressive. I'm not saying he's not good, just that he hasn't faced much tougher competition than anyone else yet, imho. Hard to say if he can stack up against Lava Man, let alone Flower Alley if he's fit and ready.

But I'm with Gander: Lava Man is great for the sport. His dirt+turf wins alone make a good argument for HOY to me.

Jim Dandy on July 29. Prep for Travers. I think Jazil is going the other route.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I like Flower Alley. He is a good horse. What I think is going to happen in the BCC if Lava Man and Flower Alley go is that you are going to see a fresh horses vs a tired battled weary horse. I dont think it is going to be a fair match. Flower Alley finish ahead of Lava Man on BCC. If they were to face each other in August at some other track other than a Cali or east coast track I would take Lava Man. But come Nov, Flower Alley will be fresh and Lava Man will be tired. Advatage Flower Alley.

You're right I think Lava Man has hit the top of his form cycle after the Gold Cup. Lava Man is a great horse , but we don't see many that hold their form like Cigar. Give him time away from the track and find a turf race for him just before the Sunshine Million in Febuary 07 and do it all again.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Gander

I'll take a horse like Lava Man over the over-rated Flower Alley anyday

I agree 100%. While Lava Man may not have beaten the best grade 1 fields out there, he hasnt ducked a single horse and his schedule has been made very clear. Those with the traditional East Coast bias are welcome to send thir horses out West to take him on before the BC, but have chose not to. The mighty Seek Gold sure looked great on Saturday! LOL!

Lava Man has won 3 grade 1's (winning on both surfaces) plus 2 other races while the only thing Flower Alley has done is beat Gold and Roses in a listless glorified NJ allowance race.

Sure Flower Alley is top notch but it doesnt do the fans any good keeping their favorite horses in their barns. We've seen Flower Alley once in 9 months, while Lava Man has run 5 times in that timeframe. You tell me if this is even a contest right now?

Gander, you should have heard the cheers Lava Man received when he returned to the Winners Circle, the fans out here love him, he looked real tired but it was a miserably hot day, he has those eyes that just look at everyone around, he knew he won and was proud. It's great to see a horse the fans can cheer for, he's becoming a real legend out here, all the sports pages had an article on him.

[Buffymommy]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Gander, you should have heard the cheers Lava Man received when he returned to the Winners Circle, the fans out here love him, he looked real tired but it was a miserably hot day, he has those eyes that just look at everyone around, he knew he won and was proud. It's great to see a horse the fans can cheer for, he's becoming a real legend out here, all the sports pages had an article on him.

Now isn't that a horse we want to be HOY? I am cheering for him. He ran a game race to a horse carrying a lot less weight than him. So far he has my vote for HOY considering he has run all year. Not to say that my mind may change later on about this, but for now Lava Man is on the top of my list for HOY.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Buffymommy

Now isn't that a horse we want to be HOY? I am cheering for him. He ran a game race to a horse carrying a lot less weight than him. So far he has my vote for HOY considering he has run all year. Not to say that my mind may change later on about this, but for now Lava Man is on the top of my list for HOY.

If he can keep this up, he has got my vote too without a doubt. I LOVE this horse. I was SCREAMING for him at the OTB this weekend. When he stumbled out of the gate like that, carrying that much weight, I told my mom that if he won he was a great horse. He won and in my eyes he is a great horse. This horse had more heart than the rest of the field combined. He has displayed enormous versatility in his running styles and on the different surfaces he runs and his courage leaves me in awe. He was an underdog who worked his way to the top the hard way. He isn't a blueblood, he is just a horse who loves to run and win. How can you not root for this guy?

[ateamstupid]

I gotta see this horse do something outside of CA. Until he does that, to me, he's a very good west coast horse. Not a great horse. The JCGC was just pitiful. Maybe he was off form, or maybe he can't do anything on a real racetrack.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

If he can keep this up, he has got my vote too without a doubt. I LOVE this horse. I was SCREAMING for him at the OTB this weekend. When he stumbled out of the gate like that, carrying that much weight, I told my mom that if he won he was a great horse. He won and in my eyes he is a great horse. This horse had more heart than the rest of the field combined. He has displayed enormous versatility in his running styles and on the different surfaces he runs and his courage leaves me in awe. He was an underdog who worked his way to the top the hard way. He isn't a blueblood, he is just a horse who loves to run and win. How can you not root for this guy?

O'neill has done a great job with this horse. But he's (Lava Man) got to learn to ship well so that he can perform outside of Cali. If he can do that then he'll really be the goods...until then poeple will always knock him as a california specialist.