Garret Gomez sucks

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Sorry, just letting off a little steam, but I'd like someone to find me three worse rides in one day than his gems on Wait a While, Dream Rush and Hard Spun today.

What????

Wait a While stalked a crawling pace and was dreadful ( I bet her career is over ). Dream Rush ran well in hand and collapsed.....looking like the distance got her. Both these horses were 3:5 for God's sakes. Not Gomez's fault at all that they lost......just as he wouldn't have deserved any credit had they won.


Now, on Hard Spun.....while the tactics were probably foolish, and his best chance ( not that he had any ) was perhaps to try and bottom out the field, do you honestly think Gomez made the decision to ride him that way? Highly unlikely.

[docicu3]

And so the question begs asking.........

What determines ,other than order of finish, what a good ride is???

It would certainly be helpful to me to understand what charcterizes a "good ride" per say. If a jockey on a horse who finshed 3rd or 4th is there an objective set of criteria that all would agree with that would glorify an effort or is it more like a piece of art in the eye of the beholder.

[Rupert Pupkin]

The bottom line is that none of those 3 horses would have won today no matter how they were ridden. I have no problem criticizing a jock if they cost a horse the race, but GG did not cost any of those horses the race.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The bottom line is that none of those 3 horses would have won today no matter how they were ridden. I have no problem criticizing a jock if they cost a horse the race, but GG did not cost any of those horses the race.

I think you're absolutely dead wrong.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

dream rush yes wait awile for sure...waitawile was a joke he was over confedent thet when they turned for home he would blow by,,imo.....and joey.....you betta talk now mon

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

dream rush yes wait awile for sure...waitawile was a joke he was over confedent thet when they turned for home he would blow by,,imo.....and joey.....you betta talk now mon

I ... hate ... that ... horse.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I think you're absolutely dead wrong.

Let's say that John Velaquez would have ridden all 3 of those horses yesterday. Which of those horses would have won?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Let's say that John Velaquez would have ridden all 3 of those horses yesterday. Which of those horses would have won?

Dream Rush and possibly Wait a While.

[Danzig]

i think gomez thought wait a while was much better than she was, and that my typhoon was much worse than she turned out to be yesterday, that he could gun to the lead when he wanted.

ooops.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Dream Rush and possibly Wait a While.

He obviously had to go to the lead on Dream Rush from the rail. Once he got on the lead, he tried to rate her the best he could. It wasn't as if he asked her and she opened up 5 lengths and got run down. He slowed her down as much as he could. He couldn't have been any stiller in the saddle. I think the filly was just a little too head-strong for GG to slow her down any more than he did. He had a very tight hold of her. I agree with you that you don't want to go :45 1/5 in a mile race. That is definitely too fast. I don't think he wanted to go that fast, but once she was rolling on the lead it didn't look like he could get her to settle much more than she did.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Let's say that John Velaquez would have ridden all 3 of those horses yesterday. Which of those horses would have won?

Use Prado and not Johnny V- even though he won the big one yesterday, he's been less than stellar lately. . .

Dream Rush wins
Wait a While might win
Hard Spun loses no matter what

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by docicu3

And so the question begs asking.........

What determines ,other than order of finish, what a good ride is???

IMO, a "good ride" is when a jockey simply makes an effort to put his horse in a position to be successful. After he does that, the rest is up to the horse.

There are times when jockeys will end up in can't win type situations...they might have a need-the-lead type, in a race with four other speeds. They might be breaking from an inside post on a dead-rail track, and end up finding themselves unable to reasonably work their way outside. They might be on a deep closer in a race void of speed. When off the pace, and unable to get out into the clear---they might choose to follow a well-bet rival who appears to have horse..and if it turns out that rival doesn't have horse, they might find themselves in a bad situation.

However, in most cases, a rider should be able to put his horse in a spot that fairly suits him....especially if he's riding a tactically gifted horse.

IMO,a "great ride" is when a jockey steals a race---or does something either tactically brilliant....or works out a perfect trip in a situation where the likelyhood of having a perfect trip is slim.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What????

Wait a While stalked a crawling pace and was dreadful ( I bet her career is over ). Dream Rush ran well in hand and collapsed.....looking like the distance got her. Both these horses were 3:5 for God's sakes. Not Gomez's fault at all that they lost......just as he wouldn't have deserved any credit had they won.


Now, on Hard Spun.....while the tactics were probably foolish, and his best chance ( not that he had any ) was perhaps to try and bottom out the field, do you honestly think Gomez made the decision to ride him that way? Highly unlikely.

I don't think it was Gomez' decision to ride that way. They replaced one rider already because they thought he moved too early. This was the plan going in....to wait and wait and wait. I knew he had no chance to win when I saw how close Curlin and Rags were to him down the backstretch. I said then that I thought Pino made the right move to try and take the race at the point that he did. That horse had no chance of outrunning them down the lane so his only chance would have been opening up as much as he could.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Now, on Hard Spun.....while the tactics were probably foolish, and his best chance ( not that he had any ) was perhaps to try and bottom out the field, do you honestly think Gomez made the decision to ride him that way? Highly unlikely.

The final time in the Acorn was over 54 seconds faster than the Belmont Stakes...which is obviously four furlongs further.

I guess that speaks volumes about how amazingly slow the pace was in the Belmont Stakes.

How do you think Street Sense would have faired in such a ridiculously run race?

I'm struggling with that question myself....but it would very likely have depended upon where he was placed. His turn of foot is obviously clearly superior to anyone in that field...but he'd have needed to have been very close to the pace for his weapon to be most effective.

It would have been very interesting if Curlin had won, going from a facile wire-to-wire debut winner sprinting in February, to having to better a 23.83 second final quarter mile, in a 12 furlong stake, just four months later.

I still haven't gone back and re-watched the races yet....but there seem to be a lot of interesting things to think about just as I start to look over the charts.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What????

Wait a While stalked a crawling pace and was dreadful ( I bet her career is over ). Dream Rush ran well in hand and collapsed.....looking like the distance got her. Both these horses were 3:5 for God's sakes. Not Gomez's fault at all that they lost......just as he wouldn't have deserved any credit had they won.


Now, on Hard Spun.....while the tactics were probably foolish, and his best chance ( not that he had any ) was perhaps to try and bottom out the field, do you honestly think Gomez made the decision to ride him that way? Highly unlikely.

Andy, you are probably right on all counts, and after having a day to think about this, I would have to say... Garrett Gomez SUCKS!
He rode Hard Spun like he was pissed he wasn't on the Filly. Followed directions to a T, but do you really think 3-4 wide, while being choked on a 50 second first half mile is what Larry Jones had in mind? That said, I do totally agree he was not winning that race under any scenario. He did nothing to injure the horse, but he never should have been allowed to ride under those circumstances to begin with.
My opinion of GG is not based on just yesterday, but on a big pile of discarded tickets over the years (or at least my perception of such).

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by golfer

My opinion of GG is not based on just yesterday, but on a big pile of discarded tickets over the years (or at least my perception of such).

And yet you apparently continue to bet his horses?

IMO, he cannot be too bad if he is on top of the earnings list. Not to say that some individual rides may be less than stellar, but overall, he has the skills and uses them.

--Dunbar

[golfer]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

And yet you apparently continue to bet his horses?

IMO, he cannot be too bad if he is on top of the earnings list. Not to say that some individual rides may be less than stellar, but overall, he has the skills and uses them.

--Dunbar

I didn't say he was a bad rider, I just said he SUCKS
You do realize this has become light-hearted, nonsense, for me, anyway. I am far more dissapointed with yesterday as a whole, than I am angry at Garrett Gomez.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Now, on Hard Spun.....while the tactics were probably foolish, and his best chance ( not that he had any ) was perhaps to try and bottom out the field, do you honestly think Gomez made the decision to ride him that way? Highly unlikely.

http://www.newsday.com/search/ny-spb...,6977749.story

According to post-race comments Gomez made the decision.

Not that it would've mattered anyways.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

http://www.newsday.com/search/ny-spb...,6977749.story

According to post-race comments Gomez made the decision.

Not that it would've mattered anyways.

Interesting! Thanks for posting the link.

--Dunbar

[golfer]

"Others emerged frustrated from the Belmont, notably Larry Jones, who trains Hard Spun, second in the Kentucky Derby after setting a suicidal pace, and third in the Preakness, in which he was embroiled in unreasonably fast fractions and fourth yesterday with Garrett Gomez riding while never involved in the pace.

"The pace was very slow. I thought that was our game plan leaving the paddock: to have these kind of fractions but be in front doing it," Jones lamented. "Apparently, we had a miscommunication somewhere."

Gomez, who until yesterday was Rags to Riches' regular rider but committed to Hard Spun while Pletcher wrestled with the Belmont decision, saw the race differently.

"At the half-mile pole, I felt I was in a great spot," he said. "At the three-eighths pole, I thought I was money. When it was time for sprinting, he just didn't have the turn of foot the other two had."

This borderline proves that Gomez mailed in the ride. For him to say he thought he was money at the 3/8ths pole is ridiculous.
He still SUCKS!