Va Derby

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

http://www.drf.com/news/article/76158.html



It is towards the bottom of the article.

Sounds like he isn't running in the Virginia Derby or the Travers. Tough to go back and forth between turf and dirt.

I agree...two different styles of racing and while allowance and claiming horses might can pull it off, it is a lot harder at the top level...they are even trained a bit different by most outfits...The Secretariat makes sense becasue I'm sure they see it as an opportunity for a great chance to win a Gr. I for the colt in a game where nothing is guaranteed..he could go wrong at any minute so I suppose connections want to chase a Gr. I while he is right...

Personally, I run for the $1 million pay day in what will be a weaker spot in the Va. Derby over the Secretariat - where he may have to face some Euros...but, they obviously would rather being 2-1 for the chance to win a Gr. I versus being odds-on for a $1 million in easier purse money...I can't blame them...money is obviously no concern to them since they've had two 3yos win $1 million+ races already this year....

Additionally, he is a Strategic Mission out of T.V. Commercial mare - so I assume that there strategy is to get as many Gr. Is under his belt as they possible can to enhance his stud value, which is a value that will alwasy have a low ceiling IMO with that pedigree.....He could do as much on the track as Skip Away and Silver Charm and still be regarded as subpar bloodstock in the breeding shed just like those two nice horses.....That is why I would chase the easier purse money with him right now while it presents itself and then tackle the big boys down the road - but I can defunately see their angle here.....

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Additionally, he is a Strategic Mission out of T.V. Commercial mare - so I assume that there strategy is to get as many Gr. Is under his belt as they possible can to enhance his stud value, which is a value that will alwasy have a low ceiling IMO with that pedigree.....He could do as much on the track as Skip Away and Silver Charm and still be regarded as subpar bloodstock in the breeding shed just like those two nice horses.....That is why I would chase the easier purse money with him right now while it presents itself and then tackle the big boys down the road - but I can defunately see their angle here.....

This I completely agree with. Without a Grade 1 on the dirt, and even then, it doesn't seem he will ever have significant stud value. Luckily, for the owners, this doesn't really matter.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This I completely agree with. Without a Grade 1 on the dirt, and even then, it doesn't seem he will ever have significant stud value. Luckily, for the owners, this doesn't really matter.

Probably not significant, but the people I have spoken with said his ability to run on the dirt and turf make him an interesting horse. Throw in a few track records and a few grade/group 1's and they will have no problem filling his book, just not at a huge price.

I get the feeling he will be around for a few years though because the money they could make off him at stud is nothing to them, especially if Barbaro turns out ok. Barbaro is a cash register in the breeding shed. Showing Up could even be around at 5 if he stays on the grass. I hope so because the US needs a turf horse that we can ship over to Europe and win a big race.

Originally Posted by boldruler

Probably not significant, but the people I have spoken with said his ability to run on the dirt and turf make him an interesting horse. Throw in a few track records and a few grade/group 1's and they will have no problem filling his book, just not at a huge price.

I get the feeling he will be around for a few years though because the money they could make off him at stud is nothing to them, especially if Barbaro turns out ok. Barbaro is a cash register in the breeding shed. Showing Up could even be around at 5 if he stays on the grass. I hope so because the US needs a turf horse that we can ship over to Europe and win a big race.

He'll have to race fotr a few years if healthy because his stud value has such a short ceiling....hes really more valuable on the track.........

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

He'll have to race fotr a few years if healthy because his stud value has such a short ceiling....hes really more valuable on the track.........

He probably is. I plan on getting a mare to breed with him, but don't plan on paying his fee.

[blackthroatedwind]

I would say if one evaluates horses based on their own opinions that those opinions are far more valuable than opinions from people close to horses.

Showing Up is a " freak "? That is like people who call Smarty Jones " great ". Let's see a few more races from him. He's a good horse but how good is still very much open to debate.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I would say if one evaluates horses based on their own opinions that those opinions are far more valuable than opinions from people close to horses.

Showing Up is a " freak "? That is like people who call Smarty Jones " great ". Let's see a few more races from him. He's a good horse but how good is still very much open to debate.

He told me the same thing about Barbaro late last year. They know their stuff and his only turf race was pretty impressive so who am I to argue. They also love this Rumspringa horse in the BC Sprint.

Originally Posted by boldruler

He probably is. I plan on getting a mare to breed with him, but don't plan on paying his fee.

It is nice to have tose connections...good for you....I can't imagine his stud fee range ever getting much higher than $25,000 and he would have to do alot to get to that level IMO.....He'll probably stand for $7,500 to $20,000 with a VERY GOOD racing career - which means winning at least a couple Gr. Is and being a top class performer at least through age 4...the fat he possesses soem speed and held a one-turn track record will help to market him....if he was a plodder he would be hopeless at stud regardless of how many Gr. Is he won....breeders want pedigree and speed as much as they want to breed to a quality, top-shelf horse.....with Showing Up's pedigree he is starting well behind already and if he only accomplishes greatness on the grass it will hurt him even more...he'll need to swap back to the dirt and try to win the Met Mile next year or another improtant dirt race if he wants to be stood in a good market like KY for $10,000 or more.......If he just has grass credentials he is probably suited better standing in New York or somewhere IMO.....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

It is nice to have tose connections...good for you....I can't imagine his stud fee range ever getting much higher than $25,000 and he would have to do alot to get to that level IMO.....He'll probably stand for $7,500 to $20,000 with a VERY GOOD racing career - which means winning at least a couple Gr. Is and being a top class performer at least through age 4...the fat he possesses soem speed and held a one-turn track record will help to market him....if he was a plodder he would be hopeless at stud regardless of how many Gr. Is he won....breeders want pedigree and speed as much as they want to breed to a quality, top-shelf horse.....with Showing Up's pedigree he is starting well behind already and if he only accomplishes greatness on the grass it will hurt him even more...he'll need to swap back to the dirt and try to win the Met Mile next year or another improtant dirt race if he wants to be stood in a good market like KY for $10,000 or more.......If he just has grass credentials he is probably suited better standing in New York or somewhere IMO.....

A big win in Europe on the grass will make him a little more valuable. Believe it or not, they wanted to take Barbaro over to Europe for a race and I think that is the plan for Showing Up. I think he is likely to be in the $10,000 range if he can pull off a few grade 1's on the turf. I doubt the Met Mile will even be on his radar, I believe a big race in Europe and the BC Turf will be his targets in 2007. He is a nice dirt horse, but his beyers were nothing impressive to me on the dirt. He clearly is a better horse on the turf, which he should be based on his breeding.