Street Sense sharp in drill

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by justindew

3) If I were to argue that Fusaichi Pegasus, Smarty Jones, and Point Given represented our best shots at a Triple Crown winner in the last 10 years, would I get laughed out of the room?

I'd say no on the latter two, yes on the former.

[cmorioles]

War Emblem was better than Pegasus. I'd even put Empire Maker, who I disliked a lot, ahead of FuPeg.

[justindew]

If Fusaichi Pegasus handles the swamp at Pimlico and finishes first instead of second, I think he trounces Commendable and the rest of the worst field ever assembled for a Belmont Stakes.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by justindew

If Fusaichi Pegasus handles the swamp at Pimlico and finishes first instead of second, I think he trounces Commendable and the rest of the worst field ever assembled for a Belmont Stakes.

If he wins, I seriously doubt the Belmont field would have been so weak. I don't, however, agree it was the slop that did him in.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

War Emblem was better than Pegasus. I'd even put Empire Maker, who I disliked a lot, ahead of FuPeg.

Really? War Emblem?

Maybe he's just one of the horses I most disliked over the years. He always seemed like a beneficiary of circumstance, the big Beyer over one of the world's most speed-favoring tracks, then a Derby filled with average horses (save Medaglia d'Oro who was a no-show that day), then a performance in the Belmont that would have been bad even if he had been on all four legs coming out of the gate.

Count me among those who think FuPeg was WAY better than War Emblem.

NT

[cmorioles]

Well, he won two legs of the TC, FuPeg one. He also went on to take the Haskell, while FuPeg won the Jerome. War Emblem earned figures as good, actually better I think, then FuPeg.

As for the Belmont, the break is the most overlooked form of trouble in racing in my opinion. War Emblem had zero chance after that break.

I forgot one other horse that may have had the best chance to win the TC the last decade...Ghostzapper.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Well, he won two legs of the TC, FuPeg one. He also went on to take the Haskell, while FuPeg won the Jerome. War Emblem earned figures as good, actually better I think, then FuPeg.

As for the Belmont, the break is the most overlooked form of trouble in racing in my opinion. War Emblem had zero chance after that break.

I forgot one other horse that may have had the best chance to win the TC the last decade...Ghostzapper.

I respect your opinion. While I think to a great extent FuPeg was a beneficiary of circumstance in the Derby, I still think he was the best in that race. Undoubtedly the best horse born in 1997 was Tiznow, but unfortunately he was not around to contest the TC.

I completely agree on Ghostzapper though. The 2003 3YO bunch would have had a run for their money.

NT

[blackthroatedwind]

The FuPeg argument is a little like my argument that Bellamy Road was the superior horse of that crop. I can't back it up with facts particularly, and the other side can do a better job of that, but it's just my opinion. FuPeg was overrated, no doubt, but he was also pretty good. He was basically done in by physical issues, perhaps partly because he was excessively babied, and I happen to agree with Justin that he didn't handle the track at Pimlico at all in the Preakness. I am loathe to use that as an excuse but in watching that race it seems painfully obvious to me.

War Emblem's faster numbers were somewhat circumstantial, though I guess his Preakness win was totally legitimate, so I suppose the argument is at least fair. But, even though FuPeg ultimately was a disappointment, drowning El Corredor and Albert the Great ( who won the Jockey Club by 10 a few weeks later - he forgot to bounce ) in the Jerome off a four month layoff was pretty damn impressive.

To me, Silver Charm and Touch Gold could both have won the Triple Crown against some of the crops we have seen in recent years. I think a sound Touch Gold was better than Smarty Jones.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Well, he won two legs of the TC, FuPeg one. He also went on to take the Haskell, while FuPeg won the Jerome. War Emblem earned figures as good, actually better I think, then FuPeg.

As for the Belmont, the break is the most overlooked form of trouble in racing in my opinion. War Emblem had zero chance after that break.

I forgot one other horse that may have had the best chance to win the TC the last decade...Ghostzapper.

I know what you're saying as far as ability relative to the crop, but he wasn't ready for the rigors of the Triple Crown. Hell I don't even think Frankel knew what he had at that point.

I loved his quote after the Belmont- "Empire Maker is the best horse I've ever trained", and I'm thinking (after seeing Ghostzapper's return to the races in an electrifying performance) "he isn't even your best 3YO"

[cmorioles]

I do have a soft spot for War Emblem. I love horses that just go from the bell and dare you to get them.

I forgot about Silver Charm, he does make the decade cutoff. Touch Gold may have been better, but he was good for very short spurts of time and had way too many physical problems. I think even Free House could have won the TC in a few of the years this past decade. He was pretty darn good as well.

[blackthroatedwind]

Captain Bodgit was no slouch either. That was an outstanding group. Hell, Pulpit was damn good as well.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Well, he won two legs of the TC, FuPeg one. He also went on to take the Haskell, while FuPeg won the Jerome. War Emblem earned figures as good, actually better I think, then FuPeg.

As for the Belmont, the break is the most overlooked form of trouble in racing in my opinion. War Emblem had zero chance after that break.

I forgot one other horse that may have had the best chance to win the TC the last decade...Ghostzapper.

If you'd seen WE in the paddock (assuming you weren't there) you'd have wanted no part of him. He looked terrible.

[cmorioles]

I didn't want any part of him anyway. He was like 4 to 5 or something.