Players Championship

[Samarta]

man you gotta feel for the kid....two in the drink on 17 not only cost him 700k, but might have ruined him for a long time....man that's two bad...what was he thinking hitting a 9 iron when the #'s were like 23 and 32 weren't they.....hell that's even a wedge for me....

Kev,

At least we didn't have to go through the orchestrated family photo opp...

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Samarta

man you gotta feel for the kid....two in the drink on 17 not only cost him 700k, but might have ruined him for a long time....man that's two bad...what was he thinking hitting a 9 iron when the #'s were like 23 and 32 weren't they.....hell that's even a wedge for me....

Kev,

At least we didn't have to go through the orchestrated family photo opp...

Sam, the kid showed a ton of class talking with Maltbie aftwards...too many others would have blown him off and not spoke.

I think the wind kind of freshened into his face when he was on the tee. Like he told Roger...he wasn't playing for 2nd place. I think if he goes at the pin with a wedge, ( I think it was playing 35 hole) it most likely would have ballooned on him and come up short. He hit a helluva shot...right over the pin...just a bit too much adrenaline. Had he made that 5-6 footer for birdie on 16, things would have been different and he wouldn't have had to fire at the pin.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by GPK

Sam, the kid showed a ton of class talking with Maltbie aftwards...too many others would have blown him off and not spoke.

I think the wind kind of freshened into his face when he was on the tee. Like he told Roger...he wasn't playing for 2nd place. I think if he goes at the pin with a wedge, ( I think it was playing 35 hole) it most likely would have ballooned on him and come up short. He hit a helluva shot...right over the pin...just a bit too much adrenaline. Had he made that 5-6 footer for birdie on 16, things would have been different and he wouldn't have had to fire at the pin.

It was a bit "Len Mattiaceian", but I don't think this will have a long term effect on his career. Missing that putt on 16 had to hurt his confidence level going to 17. The chip on 18 was pretty bad.
By the way, Sawgrass is about the only place in this stinkin state not burning right now

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by GPK

Sam, the kid showed a ton of class talking with Maltbie aftwards...too many others would have blown him off and not spoke.

I think the wind kind of freshened into his face when he was on the tee. Like he told Roger...he wasn't playing for 2nd place. I think if he goes at the pin with a wedge, ( I think it was playing 35 hole) it most likely would have ballooned on him and come up short. He hit a helluva shot...right over the pin...just a bit too much adrenaline. Had he made that 5-6 footer for birdie on 16, things would have been different and he wouldn't have had to fire at the pin.

I hear ya....but in that situation wouldn't you rather have to hit something hard then take something off? (Kev would have pulled a Herman and hidden the 9 iron...greatest golf story every, imo)You're right it was perfect and if the water wasn't there, it takes one hop and backs up to about 5 feet or so probably...I just hope it doesn't get him between the ears too much....looks like he has some talent....

[pmayjr]

The funny thing about Phil yesterday, was he was lights out tee-to-green, but he missed a lot of "routine" putts. He kept O'Hair in the tournament a lot longer than he should've. Phil could've won it by 5 yesterday.

BUT HATS OFF TO THE MAN. A nice win and another notch on his resume.

Speaking of bad finishes though, do you think Sergio is really regretting his finish on Saturday? He missed a 5-footer for birdie at 17, and then doubles on 18... He's not really known for hitting a big putt on Sunday (he was never really in contention yesterday, so in my eyes he didn't do anything clutch), so who knows if he doesn't drop those 2 on 18, or gets that birdie on 17, if he would've played the same... but still...

Number 17 would be a great hole if:

They had it in a valley with very little wind. You cant punch it and stay on. And the wind changes direction up that high often. I dont think it is fair that the players have to assess the wind on the ground, to figure out what is going on up above on a green like that surrounded by water.

Kev. Can they put some sort of wind sock high up in the air that shows wind direction. The players can pick the perfect club based on ground wind, hit a perfect shot and still go in the water because the winds aloft change. I know this happens with shots on other holes. But on this hole one plays too large a price for the randomness of atmospheric conditions imo.

BTW. Later in the day as the water absorbs heat energy, as does the green, the surfaces release the heat into the air in very different ways. This can drastically effect the air aloft. I dont think its a fair hole.

[Antitrust32]

anyone else notice lefty's little grin after O'hair hit into the drink...

made me want to puke.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Number 17 would be a great hole if:

They had it in a valley with very little wind. You cant punch it and stay on. And the wind changes direction up that high often. I dont think it is fair that the players have to assess the wind on the ground, to figure out what is going on up above on a green like that surrounded by water.

Kev. Can they put some sort of wind sock high up in the air that shows wind direction. The players can pick the perfect club based on ground wind, hit a perfect shot and still go in the water because the winds aloft change. I know this happens with shots on other holes. But on this hole one plays too large a price for the randomness of atmospheric conditions imo.

Pat...no wind sock. In golf, many times, Mother Nature is the only defense the golf course has. I highly doubt that many people have given as much in depth thought into it like you have. I love the way your brain operates Pat, and only wish I possesed the same type knowledge so I could set my brain in motion like that.

Every player and caddie have a yardage book (produced by Gorgeous George) and on ever page of these yardage books there is a directional guide showing were North, South, East and West is. It is both the players and caddies job to be aware of the predominate wind condition starting the day and also the changes that it makes throughout the day. I have played enough golf in my life to know how the wind is going to affect my ball a very high % of the time. These guys are TONS better than I am, so they are even more accutely aware of how their ball is going to react in certian wind conditions. But, neither they, nor I, are ever 100% right under the circumstances. Again, it may seem "unfair", but in an era where the technology is so far advanced (especially the golf ball) and the talent gap between the PGA Tour and your average player is continously widening, Mother Nature is essentially the only defense left that keeps these guys in check. The technology has rendered many golf courses obsolete and in response to that, too many golf course architects are building longer and more difficult golf courses that are just too tough for the average player. They are too tough because the average player does not possess the skills necessary to take advantage of the advanced equipment on the market.

I need to stop because I could go on forever and bore everyone to tears. Besides, work calls. We can continue this later if you like. I have a million opinions on the game

[golfer]

A friend of mine, a Jax local, told me the story of 17. He said the only reason it exists is because that is where they found all the good sand they needed to build the rest of the course, so they dug deep in that area, creating the lake.. then Pete Dye's wife suggested the island green.

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Number 17 would be a great hole if:

They had it in a valley with very little wind. You cant punch it and stay on. And the wind changes direction up that high often. I dont think it is fair that the players have to assess the wind on the ground, to figure out what is going on up above on a green like that surrounded by water.

Kev. Can they put some sort of wind sock high up in the air that shows wind direction. The players can pick the perfect club based on ground wind, hit a perfect shot and still go in the water because the winds aloft change. I know this happens with shots on other holes. But on this hole one plays too large a price for the randomness of atmospheric conditions imo.

I had the pleasure of playing Sawgrass a few years ago and golf in general for 20+ and it is one of those crazy holes where it's a shot you hit every round and are generally pissed if you don't get to within 15 feet of your target....it's a nice smooth wedge.....the problem is you have to look up and see where you are aiming.....it's just a visually intimidating hole....no wind tricks, no gimmicks, it's hard to explain, but it's simply of smooth wedge that is complicated by this site of a green that looks to be moving as you're standing there trying to decide if wedge is enough club to hit 120 yards, (sure it is, hit the damn wedge and go putt for birdie) and once you decide that it's better to hit a 9 iron (which is your 140 yard club) your next decision is finding the drop area, cuz you just flew the green....oh, I hit the wedge on the dance floor, 2 putts, par.....our group was 2 for 4 in keeping it dry....the other person that didn't hit in the drink put it right where you walk onto the green...I thought the toughest shot on the course is the tee shot on 18.....

[brockguy]

typical Garcia on Sunday.. flies through when there's no pressure. An each way punters dream..

Originally Posted by Samarta

I had the pleasure of playing Sawgrass a few years ago and golf in general for 20+ and it is one of those crazy holes where it's a shot you hit every round and are generally pissed if you don't get to within 15 feet of your target....it's a nice smooth wedge.....the problem is you have to look up and see where you are aiming.....it's just a visually intimidating hole....no wind tricks, no gimmicks, it's hard to explain, but it's simply of smooth wedge that is complicated by this site of a green that looks to be moving as you're standing there trying to decide if wedge is enough club to hit 120 yards, (sure it is, hit the damn wedge and go putt for birdie) and once you decide that it's better to hit a 9 iron (which is your 140 yard club) your next decision is finding the drop area, cuz you just flew the green....oh, I hit the wedge on the dance floor, 2 putts, par.....our group was 2 for 4 in keeping it dry....the other person that didn't hit in the drink put it right where you walk onto the green...I thought the toughest shot on the course is the tee shot on 18.....

I will admit I have not watched the hole played enough. When I saw the kid so sure he had hit the ball way too far and he landed in birdie range, and then Johnny Miller started to explain how tricky the wind could get I assumed in might be common place occurence. So I was just thinking it is unfair not to be able to properly assess conditions on a hole that may be easy but terribly unforgiving.

I of course would take a carton of fireworks and fire above the ground and watch the smoke blow. I mean you cant climb up a giant ladder and throw a little dead grass 100 feet off the ground.