132nd Preakness Stakes Field

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by miraja2

It certaintly is not a completely outrageous move or anything. She is a good filly.
I guess that to me it would make the most sense to give her about the same campaign Ashado got in '04. 12f against the boys is a tall order, but I guess it really makes sense to wait and see how the race comes up in terms of difficulty, because you never know what could happen. If the field turns up anything like last year's running of the Belmont, I guess it would make sense to go. If on the other hand, Street Sense, Hard Spun, Curlin etc. are all there (as they are expected to be) I think it would make the most sense for them to skip the race.
As a fan of the sport and a bettor though....I would love to see her in.

Even if the three you mentioned go, what kind of shape will they be in after the Derby and Preakness to face a very talented filly with a 12-furlong pedigree and fresh legs?

I think it's a win-win move for Pletcher. If she wins, she gets him off the TC schneid and gives him major points for getting a filly to the winner's circle in a TC race. She also increases her broodmare value a significant amount with a victory. If she loses, her value doesn't go down much if at all, and no one really blames Pletcher for taking a shot. He regroups and sends her to 'Toga for the Alabama, where she'll be tough.

[Skip away]

ateamstupid is right. the time is now, not in October against older males. The distance wont be what beats her if she loses. I doubt very much her race is won or lost in those extra 2F. She is clearly better than any of the Pletcher colts, but Todd knew that going into the Derby. WHo can blame him for taking the sure thing and winning the Oaks, wrapping up her eclipse. This guy didnt get to be the best trainer ever by picking the wrong spots for his horses.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Skip away

ateamstupid is right. the time is now, not in October against older males. The distance wont be what beats her if she loses. I doubt very much her race is won or lost in those extra 2F. She is clearly better than any of the Pletcher colts, but Todd knew that going into the Derby. WHo can blame him for taking the sure thing and winning the Oaks, wrapping up her eclipse. This guy didnt get to be the best trainer ever by picking the wrong spots for his horses.

The guy is good, but I don't know if I would hand him that title at this point.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Skip away

I would.

Well then you would be wrong.
Just out of curiosity, what criteria did you use to reach this conclusion?

[Skip away]

I dunno, all the cash hes earned and all those grade 1's hes wins every year, all those days when he won like 4-5 races, BC wins, dominance of 2 year olds every year at Saratoga and Belmont. and did I mention hes devilishly handsome. I met him on BC day and my knees wobbled. What a gorgeous man.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Skip away

I dunno, all the cash hes earned and all those grade 1's hes wins every year, all those days when he won like 4-5 races, BC wins, dominance of 2 year olds every year at Saratoga and Belmont. and did I mention hes devilishly handsome. I met him on BC day and my knees wobbled. What a gorgeous man.

Right. He is a good trainer. And maybe SOMEDAY he will be considered the best ever if he keeps this up. But right now he isn't even close.
Let's take DWL for just one example.
Compare how many times DWL led the nation in earnings and compare it to the number of times TP has led the nation in earnings.
Compare how many TC races DWL has won to the number that TP has won. etc. etc.
TP is certainly better than DWL RIGHT NOW, but for all-time greatest it isn't even close. And DWL is just one of MANY that would rank in front of Pletcher.
The guy is a very good trainer, but don't say he is the best ever. You just make yourself look foolish by doing that.
Okay we have used up enough space on this.....let's get back to the Preakness field.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Skip away

I dunno, all the cash hes earned and all those grade 1's hes wins every year, all those days when he won like 4-5 races, BC wins, dominance of 2 year olds every year at Saratoga and Belmont. and did I mention hes devilishly handsome. I met him on BC day and my knees wobbled. What a gorgeous man.

If you like him, I should introduce you to my friend, Travis... he looks just like him only he's got dark hair.

I think TP is a good looking guy too... very serious with gorgeous eyes.

[Bystander]

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by Skip away

I dunno, all the cash hes earned and all those grade 1's hes wins every year, all those days when he won like 4-5 races, BC wins, dominance of 2 year olds every year at Saratoga and Belmont. and did I mention hes devilishly handsome. I met him on BC day and my knees wobbled. What a gorgeous man.

Well folks, using the above logic, I now would like to tell you all that Chantal Sutherland is now my favorite jockey ever, not only that, but she may be the best of all time!! No question!!

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by ARyan

Well folks, using the above logic, I now would like to tell you all that Chantal Sutherland is now my favorite jockey ever, not only that, but she may be the best of all time!! No question!!

I think you are being far too generous with your use of that word.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Skip away

I dunno, all the cash hes earned and all those grade 1's hes wins every year, all those days when he won like 4-5 races, BC wins, dominance of 2 year olds every year at Saratoga and Belmont. and did I mention hes devilishly handsome. I met him on BC day and my knees wobbled. What a gorgeous man.

i just hurled

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Skip away

I would. And hes devilishly handsome to boot

he is??

different strokes i suppose....

[Zippy Chippy]

I hate to interrupt Pletcherfest, but I just had a question about Pimlico. I think I was listening to ATRAB the other day and somebody described it as a course with tighter turns and a shorter stretch than Churchill Downs. If this is true, do these features give any advantages or disadvantages to any certain running styles? I would be interested in hearing what people think.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Zippy Chippy

I hate to interrupt Pletcherfest, but I just had a question about Pimlico. I think I was listening to ATRAB the other day and somebody described it as a course with tighter turns and a shorter stretch than Churchill Downs. If this is true, do these features give any advantages or disadvantages to any certain running styles? I would be interested in hearing what people think.

Every year, the topic comes up and it's assumed that the dynamics of the course give frontrunners a greater chance to succeed than at CD, and while that may indeed be true, historically, the most successful horse at PIM is the stalker, coming from just off the pace.

I think it'll be interesting if Street Sense is able to hug the rail like he always does with the tight turns, because chances are, there will be room with horses fanning wide.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Sedgefield can be scratched off the list. Story at DRF.

[herkhorse]

Originally Posted by Zippy Chippy

I hate to interrupt Pletcherfest, but I just had a question about Pimlico. I think I was listening to ATRAB the other day and somebody described it as a course with tighter turns and a shorter stretch than Churchill Downs. If this is true, do these features give any advantages or disadvantages to any certain running styles? I would be interested in hearing what people think.

I was listening too. What I thought Steve said was the turns were not tighter, but less banked, making it harder for horses that were wide on the turns to navigate. Possibly this is a post position issue? How far is it to the first turn?

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Zippy Chippy

I hate to interrupt Pletcherfest, but I just had a question about Pimlico. I think I was listening to ATRAB the other day and somebody described it as a course with tighter turns and a shorter stretch than Churchill Downs. If this is true, do these features give any advantages or disadvantages to any certain running styles? I would be interested in hearing what people think.

I remember seeing something last year about this where someone superimposed Pimlico over Churchill and the turns were just about exactly the same. The tighter turns are allegedly a myth.

[Suffolk Shippers]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I think that the "Pimlico has tighter turns that favor frontrunners" angle is on its last legs. I don't hear it nearly as much as I did 10 years ago. Stalkers and closers do well in this race.

I recall a Paul Moran column (Newsday, Long Island) years ago in which he wrote that the degree of sharpness of its turns were measured against that of Churchill Downs, and that they were almost the same. This might sound counterintuitive, but it was such a radical departure from the "tighter turns" theory that I believed the information that Moran cited.

You are exactly right, the "tight turns" at Pimlico is a myth. The major difference, obviously, is the difference between the Churchill/Pimlico turns and the far sweeping turns at Belmont. Not that I like him, but I think Jerry Bailey debunked this tight turns theory on the Preakness ESPN broadcast last May.

[tycharles01]

Flying First Class is IN

Teuflesberg and Starbase are OUT


Damn how many lengths did SS win the Derby by 50??? Before they have the draw we might see 6 horses in a race on the TC

[Derby73]

Bykster,

Is that your 'ever-evolving field' or your prediction?