CRIST: Sets the NY facts straight

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There is absolutely no way to promote the jockeys as long as there is no way for the common fan to tell which jockey is which each race without looking at their form. As long as the jockeys are wearing the owners silks they are not promotable. Unless they come up with a way to differentiate the jockeys by a quick glance while keeping the owners happy there is little to no chance of promoting the jockeys. Imagine if Larry Bird or Magic Johnson wore a helmet and goggles and came out in a different color jersey with a different number every game. Even they would have been difficult to promote in that situation.

The very notion that promoting riders will revitalize the game is borderline insane. Don't get me wrong, I understand the riders have a certain amount of popularity, but they are simply not what either draws fans to the game or increases ( most importantly ) handle. If the game has stars it is most certainly the horses. But, even publicizing them isn't necessarily the way to increase the health of the game. I suppose that one could argue that at least jockeys stay around, and the supposed stars of our game are fleeting at best, but the simple fact is the people interested in racing because of either specific horses or riders do very little, at best, to aid the health of the game. Simply put, racing is driven by wagering, and really very little else. Sure it is wonderful to see enthusiast crowds at Saratoga and Del Mar, but unless they are wagering they do very little to add to the health of the game, except for appearance sake only.

Once again, the answer is to educate, and to do it intelligently. I would bet my last dollar that our Siros Seminars have added more revenue to the game than any interview with Edgar Prado or Jerry Bailey ever did.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The very notion that promoting riders will revitalize the game is borderline insane. Don't get me wrong, I understand the riders have a certain amount of popularity, but they are simply not what either draws fans to the game or increases ( most importantly ) handle. If the game has stars it is most certainly the horses. But, even publicizing them isn't necessarily the way to increase the health of the game. I suppose that one could argue that at least jockeys stay around, and the supposed stars of our game are fleeting at best, but the simple fact is the people interested in racing because of either specific horses or riders do very little, at best, to aid the health of the game. Simply put, racing is driven by wagering, and really very little else. Sure it is wonderful to see enthusiast crowds at Saratoga and Del Mar, but unless they are wagering they do very little to add to the health of the game, except for appearance sake only.

Once again, the answer is to educate, and to do it intelligently. I would bet my last dollar that our Siros Seminars have added more revenue to the game than any interview with Edgar Prado or Jerry Bailey ever did.

Agree with most of what you are saying but I think you are underrating the potential those enthusiast crowds can have. Give them a reason to follow the sport on days they aren't at the track and for many of them the wagering will continue to increase. Then things like your Siro's Seminar and the Youbet show become important catalysts to increase their wagering. By no means am I saying the jockeys are what is going to give them a reason to follow the sport. All I was saying is that there is absolutely no way of promoting the jockeys when they are wearing a different costume every race making it difficult for the common fan to differentiate between them. So as long as that is the case any efforts to promote the jockeys are a waste of time and resources.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Agree with most of what you are saying but I think you are underrating the potential those enthusiast crowds can have. Give them a reason to follow the sport on days they aren't at the track and for many of them the wagering will continue to increase. Then things like your Siro's Seminar and the Youbet show become important catalysts to increase their wagering. By no means am I saying the jockeys are what is going to give them a reason to follow the sport. All I was saying is that there is absolutely no way of promoting the jockeys when they are wearing a different costume every race making it difficult for the common fan to differentiate between them. So as long as that is the case any efforts to promote the jockeys are a waste of time and resources.

I can agree with all that. My biggest problem is that when racetracks find a way to lure people to the track they do nothing to even attempt to educate them about the game. Someone may come to the track to see Bernardini or a certain rider but the best way to get them to come back is to help them cash a bet or two. That's what hooks 'em.

For every Brad Thomas, who is beyond excellent, there are five Jan Rushtons.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

jockey trading cards
nascar esk patches on the jocks
and saddle towels
MORE HANDICAP RACES
stripper pole in the winners circle...

the real way to bring gamblers to horse raceing is.........................
TREATING THEM LIKE A CASINO PLAYER..REAL COMPS REAL HOSTS....NO OTHER WAY WILL WORK..

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The very notion that promoting riders will revitalize the game is borderline insane. Don't get me wrong, I understand the riders have a certain amount of popularity, but they are simply not what either draws fans to the game or increases ( most importantly ) handle. If the game has stars it is most certainly the horses. But, even publicizing them isn't necessarily the way to increase the health of the game. I suppose that one could argue that at least jockeys stay around, and the supposed stars of our game are fleeting at best, but the simple fact is the people interested in racing because of either specific horses or riders do very little, at best, to aid the health of the game. Simply put, racing is driven by wagering, and really very little else. Sure it is wonderful to see enthusiast crowds at Saratoga and Del Mar, but unless they are wagering they do very little to add to the health of the game, except for appearance sake only.

Once again, the answer is to educate, and to do it intelligently. I would bet my last dollar that our Siros Seminars have added more revenue to the game than any interview with Edgar Prado or Jerry Bailey ever did.

I agree. I think the horses are definitely cabable of getting people in the door (eg. Smarty Jones) way more than a jockey ever will, but the product has to be built around both being friendly and informative to the people they draw in so the noise doesn't end when the star that brought them in retires. From being fairly new to the experience of wagering, one thing that I think could drastically help are not only the seminars on handicapping the actual races but an understanding of designing your bets and using the computer to make them. Windows aren't very friendly IMO.

I think TVG is on the right track. They are teaching people how to bet pick 4's and 6's on a budget of $50 for pick 4's and $120 for pick 6's. This method is the fast track to success and should bring thousands, if not millions of new fans to the game.

[estreetposse]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I think TVG is on the right track. They are teaching people how to bet pick 4's and 6's on a budget of $50 for pick 4's and $120 for pick 6's. This method is the fast track to success and should bring thousands, if not millions of new fans to the game.

I agree this helps but I think it helps the casual player who plays maybe a couple of times month or so and again on major race days. The new player or the ones who play on TC days(mostly just the derby) have no clue what multi-race wagering or even exotics are. They play $2W on their favorite number or a familiar name, most newbies probably don't bring $50 to the track. As in all aspects of education, a foundation needs to be layed and fundamentals must be practiced & reinforced. I think the players that benefit most from BTW, Crist, Beyer etc. are ones that have a good foundation and can derive their own opinions from the knowledge of the pro cappers. The two-a-years and newbie bettors probably will not benefit from these guys(& gals) as much or at all by not knowing the basics of horseracing. Quite possibly the tracks and OTB's could encourage some form of education...Not handicapping seminars, just plain old fashioned schooling at the track or before Nick & Tom give a Track Fact Salute on the weekends.