CRIST: Sets the NY facts straight

Originally Posted by Grits

The Times Union may have been alright for Upstate, rather limits the reach I think.

The piece would serve better in the Wall Street Journal, the NYTimes, the NYPost, and every other major racing publication and newspaper in the country where racing has a stake.

Do they even cover racing anymore? Washington Post no longer carries the stuff from Laurel Park.

The more I think about it, the more I think slots will be the death of the industry.

They want to promote jockeys ala the NBA? this is the kind of stuff Executive Assistants at PR firms come up with over lunch. "Hey what about the NBA? Yeah I see a connection here."

They ought to take that jockey cam and put it on them in the jock's room when they play poker. "Oh look DOminguez made his flush. THere's no way Jara can get away from this hand."

[milliam]

How many years do we get before VLT operators say horse racing is hurting our bottom line ?

[SniperSB23]

There is absolutely no way to promote the jockeys as long as there is no way for the common fan to tell which jockey is which each race without looking at their form. As long as the jockeys are wearing the owners silks they are not promotable. Unless they come up with a way to differentiate the jockeys by a quick glance while keeping the owners happy there is little to no chance of promoting the jockeys. Imagine if Larry Bird or Magic Johnson wore a helmet and goggles and came out in a different color jersey with a different number every game. Even they would have been difficult to promote in that situation.

[saucon17]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There is absolutely no way to promote the jockeys as long as there is no way for the common fan to tell which jockey is which each race without looking at their form. As long as the jockeys are wearing the owners silks they are not promotable. Unless they come up with a way to differentiate the jockeys by a quick glance while keeping the owners happy there is little to no chance of promoting the jockeys. Imagine if Larry Bird or Magic Johnson wore a helmet and goggles and came out in a different color jersey with a different number every game. Even they would have been difficult to promote in that situation.

The only way they can promote jockeys is to switch to thier own
racing silks like the do with harness drivers who have their own set of
driving silks. At least in harness you know who is driving the horse by
just looking at colors of the driver than looking at a program to find out

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by saucon17

The only way they can promote jockeys is to switch to thier own
racing silks like the do with harness drivers who have their own set of
driving silks. At least in harness you know who is driving the horse by
just looking at colors of the driver than looking at a program to find out

Which is something the owners would never support.

[SniperSB23]

Also, imagine how much more difficult Magic Johnson and Larry Bird would have been to promote if their owners continually forced them to dress up in pink costumes.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Also, imagine how much more difficult Magic Johnson and Larry Bird would have been to promote if their owners continually forced them to dress up in pink costumes.

with satin bow ties, and that stupid poof on top of their hat?! lol

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There is absolutely no way to promote the jockeys as long as there is no way for the common fan to tell which jockey is which each race without looking at their form. As long as the jockeys are wearing the owners silks they are not promotable. Unless they come up with a way to differentiate the jockeys by a quick glance while keeping the owners happy there is little to no chance of promoting the jockeys. Imagine if Larry Bird or Magic Johnson wore a helmet and goggles and came out in a different color jersey with a different number every game. Even they would have been difficult to promote in that situation.

The very notion that promoting riders will revitalize the game is borderline insane. Don't get me wrong, I understand the riders have a certain amount of popularity, but they are simply not what either draws fans to the game or increases ( most importantly ) handle. If the game has stars it is most certainly the horses. But, even publicizing them isn't necessarily the way to increase the health of the game. I suppose that one could argue that at least jockeys stay around, and the supposed stars of our game are fleeting at best, but the simple fact is the people interested in racing because of either specific horses or riders do very little, at best, to aid the health of the game. Simply put, racing is driven by wagering, and really very little else. Sure it is wonderful to see enthusiast crowds at Saratoga and Del Mar, but unless they are wagering they do very little to add to the health of the game, except for appearance sake only.

Once again, the answer is to educate, and to do it intelligently. I would bet my last dollar that our Siros Seminars have added more revenue to the game than any interview with Edgar Prado or Jerry Bailey ever did.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The very notion that promoting riders will revitalize the game is borderline insane. Don't get me wrong, I understand the riders have a certain amount of popularity, but they are simply not what either draws fans to the game or increases ( most importantly ) handle. If the game has stars it is most certainly the horses. But, even publicizing them isn't necessarily the way to increase the health of the game. I suppose that one could argue that at least jockeys stay around, and the supposed stars of our game are fleeting at best, but the simple fact is the people interested in racing because of either specific horses or riders do very little, at best, to aid the health of the game. Simply put, racing is driven by wagering, and really very little else. Sure it is wonderful to see enthusiast crowds at Saratoga and Del Mar, but unless they are wagering they do very little to add to the health of the game, except for appearance sake only.

Once again, the answer is to educate, and to do it intelligently. I would bet my last dollar that our Siros Seminars have added more revenue to the game than any interview with Edgar Prado or Jerry Bailey ever did.

Agree with most of what you are saying but I think you are underrating the potential those enthusiast crowds can have. Give them a reason to follow the sport on days they aren't at the track and for many of them the wagering will continue to increase. Then things like your Siro's Seminar and the Youbet show become important catalysts to increase their wagering. By no means am I saying the jockeys are what is going to give them a reason to follow the sport. All I was saying is that there is absolutely no way of promoting the jockeys when they are wearing a different costume every race making it difficult for the common fan to differentiate between them. So as long as that is the case any efforts to promote the jockeys are a waste of time and resources.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Agree with most of what you are saying but I think you are underrating the potential those enthusiast crowds can have. Give them a reason to follow the sport on days they aren't at the track and for many of them the wagering will continue to increase. Then things like your Siro's Seminar and the Youbet show become important catalysts to increase their wagering. By no means am I saying the jockeys are what is going to give them a reason to follow the sport. All I was saying is that there is absolutely no way of promoting the jockeys when they are wearing a different costume every race making it difficult for the common fan to differentiate between them. So as long as that is the case any efforts to promote the jockeys are a waste of time and resources.

I can agree with all that. My biggest problem is that when racetracks find a way to lure people to the track they do nothing to even attempt to educate them about the game. Someone may come to the track to see Bernardini or a certain rider but the best way to get them to come back is to help them cash a bet or two. That's what hooks 'em.

For every Brad Thomas, who is beyond excellent, there are five Jan Rushtons.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

jockey trading cards
nascar esk patches on the jocks
and saddle towels
MORE HANDICAP RACES
stripper pole in the winners circle...

the real way to bring gamblers to horse raceing is.........................
TREATING THEM LIKE A CASINO PLAYER..REAL COMPS REAL HOSTS....NO OTHER WAY WILL WORK..

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The very notion that promoting riders will revitalize the game is borderline insane. Don't get me wrong, I understand the riders have a certain amount of popularity, but they are simply not what either draws fans to the game or increases ( most importantly ) handle. If the game has stars it is most certainly the horses. But, even publicizing them isn't necessarily the way to increase the health of the game. I suppose that one could argue that at least jockeys stay around, and the supposed stars of our game are fleeting at best, but the simple fact is the people interested in racing because of either specific horses or riders do very little, at best, to aid the health of the game. Simply put, racing is driven by wagering, and really very little else. Sure it is wonderful to see enthusiast crowds at Saratoga and Del Mar, but unless they are wagering they do very little to add to the health of the game, except for appearance sake only.

Once again, the answer is to educate, and to do it intelligently. I would bet my last dollar that our Siros Seminars have added more revenue to the game than any interview with Edgar Prado or Jerry Bailey ever did.

I agree. I think the horses are definitely cabable of getting people in the door (eg. Smarty Jones) way more than a jockey ever will, but the product has to be built around both being friendly and informative to the people they draw in so the noise doesn't end when the star that brought them in retires. From being fairly new to the experience of wagering, one thing that I think could drastically help are not only the seminars on handicapping the actual races but an understanding of designing your bets and using the computer to make them. Windows aren't very friendly IMO.

I think TVG is on the right track. They are teaching people how to bet pick 4's and 6's on a budget of $50 for pick 4's and $120 for pick 6's. This method is the fast track to success and should bring thousands, if not millions of new fans to the game.

[estreetposse]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I think TVG is on the right track. They are teaching people how to bet pick 4's and 6's on a budget of $50 for pick 4's and $120 for pick 6's. This method is the fast track to success and should bring thousands, if not millions of new fans to the game.

I agree this helps but I think it helps the casual player who plays maybe a couple of times month or so and again on major race days. The new player or the ones who play on TC days(mostly just the derby) have no clue what multi-race wagering or even exotics are. They play $2W on their favorite number or a familiar name, most newbies probably don't bring $50 to the track. As in all aspects of education, a foundation needs to be layed and fundamentals must be practiced & reinforced. I think the players that benefit most from BTW, Crist, Beyer etc. are ones that have a good foundation and can derive their own opinions from the knowledge of the pro cappers. The two-a-years and newbie bettors probably will not benefit from these guys(& gals) as much or at all by not knowing the basics of horseracing. Quite possibly the tracks and OTB's could encourage some form of education...Not handicapping seminars, just plain old fashioned schooling at the track or before Nick & Tom give a Track Fact Salute on the weekends.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There is absolutely no way to promote the jockeys as long as there is no way for the common fan to tell which jockey is which each race without looking at their form. As long as the jockeys are wearing the owners silks they are not promotable. Unless they come up with a way to differentiate the jockeys by a quick glance while keeping the owners happy there is little to no chance of promoting the jockeys. Imagine if Larry Bird or Magic Johnson wore a helmet and goggles and came out in a different color jersey with a different number every game. Even they would have been difficult to promote in that situation.

Jockeys cant have their own silks. They are EMPLOYEES remember?

[Cannon Shell]

Plus as great as some riders are their skills are not readily apparent like an athlete in another sport. What makes the top jockeys that, is a great sense of timing, patience, and hands. All of which are hard to quantify or identify.

The truth is that promoting jockeys or trainers or any other persons wont work, because even novices understand that the horses talent is what is important and readily apparent.

[Cannon Shell]

I had a conversation with a few other trainers this morning about a variety of topics including slots and the pros and cons. We are very worried as a group about what is going to happen once the tracks start raking in huge profits from the slots despite the raise of purses. I personally feel that the tracks will even be more independent and instead of coming together to solve some of the industrywide problems they will just try to throw money at them. Tracks in general have treated horsemen as a necessary evil when we were their only product so you can understand how we feel we will be viewed as we are marginalized. However if casinos are allowed in our markets without us being involved, it would surely lead to the rapid demise of the tracks. Being a gambling venture, we need to compete on the same level as the casinos. I personally have no problem with slots players not playing the races as long as we are seeing a portion of their revenue. Instead of going after slots players we should go after people who have not yet become gamblers and stress the positives of betting on our sport. Make them horseplayers before they become slot players or poker players. I would say the typical slot player is not smart or lucrative enough to become a sucessful horse player any way.

I think that horseracing in general has done a terrible job with the TV networks. We should give all our big races to ESPN when the contracts expire. Let them promote the sport year round and stop whining about overruns from little league baseball and such. Remember before last year ESPN was covering the BC preps in a half assed manner because another network covered it. If we were to give them the Triple Crown and BC I am sure they would do a much better job of televising the preps. Make ESPN and their family of networks the horse racing channel. ESPN gives you great demographics and really can help "make" a sport. Look at Poker. The current TC situation is a sad joke. The 1st 2 races on one network and the Belmont on another. I know one thing, if ESPN had the Derby we would have gotten a whole lot more coverage of races like the FL Derby and AR Derby. Maybe I'm wrong but as the networks fade ESPN will only get bigger.

I also think ESPN can help us in another area where racing is missing out badly. That is promoting the sport to the increasing hispanic population. There are so many prominent hispanics that are key players in our sport why are we not actively promoting to these people? If you watch ESPN sportscenter in the morning you see them promoting ESPN desportes every day. Racing could be a natural fit for this portion of the network which is looking hard for content.

But of course there are great ideas like the jockey cam and free t-shirts.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Being a gambling venture, we need to compete on the same level as the casinos. I personally have no problem with slots players not playing the races as long as we are seeing a portion of their revenue. Instead of going after slots players we should go after people who have not yet become gamblers and stress the positives of betting on our sport. Make them horseplayers before they become slot players or poker players. I would say the typical slot player is not smart or lucrative enough to become a sucessful horse player any way.

Horseman organizations have long opposed takeout reductions...which is absolutely essential.....and the draconian takeout is really the main reason why betting on horses is considered a suckers game by so many....and so tremendously few professional horseplayers exist.

I think if horseman really want to see what you say happen...they ought not be there to oppose takeout reductions...in fact, they should lobby for them.

From an economical standpoint---I think takeout reductions will help everyone.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

If you want to go after the people who have yet to become gamblers and to stress the positives of betting on the sport, then keep them away from people like Jeff Mullins and Barry Irwin.

Everyone remembers what Mullins told T.J. Simers from the LA Times about what he thinks on the subject, and Irwin's bloodhorse.com Q&A recently revealed a similar sentiment. He was asked what he learned as an owner that he didn't know as a handicapper, and he said that he "learned enough to give up serious gambling."

How do you bring in new people with statements like these?

You are right. Thats what happens when you put an ignorant person near a ignorant reporter and the other guy is just sooooooo smart and we are all idiots.

[estreetposse]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Plus as great as some riders are their skills are not readily apparent like an athlete in another sport. What makes the top jockeys that, is a great sense of timing, patience, and hands. All of which are hard to quantify or identify.

The truth is that promoting jockeys or trainers or any other persons wont work, because even novices understand that the horses talent is what is important and readily apparent.

I have to say sitting out back in Saratoga you get to see & hear where the $$ goes in a race. It's was and always is, "What # is Bailey on?"...Which is the Pletcher horse?"...Johnny V. & Pletcher; can't touch'em."...Another Paraneck & Pedersen...just kidding!!!
Yes, they have many of the best horses and we love to beat them, but Joe Public knows and recognizes names and faces and will continue bet them more and more. Which name do you know? Pletcher or Parisella? Bailey or Arroyo?
Everything is marketable, finding out how to market it is the difficult part.
Lots love the horse, but it can't run by itself...it needs a team behind it and that team is manmade. Maybe marketed together as a team would be a place to start.