My Problem With Religion

Its a freeforall. Everyone gets their own interpretation, yes even with the Bible of what is bad and good. It gets tiresome, and dangerous.

If you dont accept Jesus as your savior now, you will go to hell. When exactly can you accept him, and what exactly does it mean to accept him as a savior? I have never heard so many diff. answers within the Christian church. So it becomes a personal belief inflicted upon others in too many cases. I dont like this. And maybe it does not matter what I like. But if there is not some overall justice in it all (some sort of fairness), I want nothing to do with it. Im tired of hearing 3 billion Chinese are going to hell.

And hell is and heaven is... lets all take a try at an explaination. What's wrong with admitting you dont know but having some sort of basic faith that does not have to be detailed. I think people should be allowed to say I dont know. I think people who preach to others should use, "I dont know", more often. I personally dont hear it often enough. Maybe Scuds is right, maybe its a southern thing.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Its a freeforall. Everyone gets their own interpretation, yes even with the Bible of what is bad and good. It gets tiresome, and dangerous.

If you dont accept Jesus as your savior now, you will go to hell. When exactly can you accept him, and what exactly does it mean to accept him as a savior? I have never heard so many diff. answers within the Christian church. So it becomes a personal belief inflicted upon others in too many cases. I dont like this. And maybe it does not matter what I like. But if there is not some overall justice in it all (some sort of fairness), I want nothing to do with it. Im tired of hearing 3 billion Chinese are going to hell.

And hell is and heaven is... lets all take a try at an explaination. What's wrong with admitting you dont know but having some sort of basic faith that does not have to be detailed. I think people should be allowed to say I dont know. I think people who preach to others should use, "I dont know", more often. I personally dont hear it often enough. Maybe Scuds is right, maybe its a southern thing.

Pgardn: For a starter, Romans 2 gives an answer for you about anyone who hasn't heard the Gospel. It's a fair answer by your standards,imho. And it's possible you've just been talkin to the wrong people

Timm.

If the answers were all in the bible I would be very pleased. But they are not. And too many people make up answers based on personal interpretations. Or we look to someone to show us a place to read to make up our own minds? or what they think we should see based on what they have read?

Maybe things are crystal clear for some. I have looked to closely at the history of this great work. In the context of the world we live in, and the world we think the people who wrote this lived in, and the number of times it has been changed, and revised. I have to go back to the basics and ask where did I learn all this. How did I come certain beliefs. And if I am true to myself, I realize with total comfort, that the variation is astounding and to say I dont know is just fine. Because I am only human with severe limitations on understanding so much. In my mind it cant be a sin to ask questions and not come up with answers. In my world, this is the way it should be.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Timm.

If the answers were all in the bible I would be very pleased. But they are not. And too many people make up answers based on personal interpretations. Or we look to someone to show us a place to read to make up our own minds? or what they think we should see based on what they have read?

Maybe things are crystal clear for some. I have looked to closely at the history of this great work. In the context of the world we live in, and the world we think the people who wrote this lived in, and the number of times it has been changed, and revised. I have to go back to the basics and ask where did I learn all this. How did I come certain beliefs. And if I am true to myself, I realize with total comfort, that the variation is astounding and to say I dont know is just fine. Because I am only human with severe limitations on understanding so much. In my mind it cant be a sin to ask questions and not come up with answers. In my world, this is the way it should be.

My concern IS that you'll be totally comfortable without coming up with the answer. You are a scientist,and the questions you face in various fields can be answered by the next generation(or the guy sitting next to you),but we are here for a short time and that question MUST be answered by everyone.

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

My concern IS that you'll be totally comfortable without coming up with the answer. You are a scientist,and the questions you face in various fields can be answered by the next generation(or the guy sitting next to you),but we are here for a short time and that question MUST be answered by everyone.

Science cannot and never will be able to answer many things I would like to know.

What is the question that must be answered by everyone? When must it be answered? And how did you personally determine the answers you will give me?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Science cannot and never will be able to answer many things I would like to know.

What is the question that must be answered by everyone? When must it be answered? And how did you personally determine the answers you will give me?

P: what??? there aren't any Christian scientists?? The question everyone(expect the people I was talking about in Romans 2) has to answer is: What are you gonna do about Jesus? 2) It's gotta be answered while you're still kickin 3) Faith,Bible,Study, and experience(some of it is even empirical)

[GenuineRisk]

I'm mad at radical Christians right now because they sent death threats to a hotel and thus deprived me of chocolate Jesus:

http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8021

Be sure to click on the Digby link at the end of Cole's post.

And also mad at the hotel for deliberatly setting up a provocative exhibit and then freaking out when it, well, provoked.

[Danzig]

how can anyone answer an unanswerable question?

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

P: what??? there aren't any Christian scientists?? The question everyone(expect the people I was talking about in Romans 2) has to answer is: What are you gonna do about Jesus? 2) It's gotta be answered while you're still kickin 3) Faith,Bible,Study, and experience(some of it is even empirical)

How did you come to the conclusion that the question is "what are we supposed to do about Jesus"? What happens to people that never get to read the bible? How did you come to the conclusion that it has to be while you are alive (and what about all the babies that never have a chance to answer that question because they die)? And when you answer this how did you determine that the bible says this is so. Purgatory... where does this idea now stand with all the Christian faiths? Study just the bible, which version, which childrens bibles are more to the real stuff? Who wrote the interpretation of the " best childrens bibles" and how did they come to believe what they were writing was the truth? Were they guided by God in their writings, or did they reason based on what they had read and gave their best honest interpretation?

I got tons more.

[timmgirvan]

PP.....you are a rascal!!

[randallscott35]

Well PP, he actually wasn't the father so I guess Maury could pull that show off.

[Danzig]

i just wish people would keep it simple. be good. be nice to people, don't be an ******* like rand says in his signature line. no one should have to preach to you (at you) for you to do the right thing. why does it have to involve a third party? why does some guy have to live a single, lonely life so he can tell you on sundays how to live?
i was raised a catholic. i haven't been to church in years, nor do i feel the lack. i've raised my kids to follow the golden rule. it's not rocket science!
do i believe a guy named jesus walked the earth? yes. do i think he set good examples about how to treat others? yes. what else do you need, or need to be told? all this judgemental crap...all the shooting, wars, crusades, it's all b.s. and the complete opposite of what religion is supposed to be about!

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i just wish people would keep it simple. be good. be nice to people, don't be an ******* like rand says in his signature line. no one should have to preach to you (at you) for you to do the right thing. why does it have to involve a third party? why does some guy have to live a single, lonely life so he can tell you on sundays how to live?
i was raised a catholic. i haven't been to church in years, nor do i feel the lack. i've raised my kids to follow the golden rule. it's not rocket science!
do i believe a guy named jesus walked the earth? yes. do i think he set good examples about how to treat others? yes. what else do you need, or need to be told? all this judgemental crap...all the shooting, wars, crusades, it's all b.s. and the complete opposite of what religion is supposed to be about!

Zeiggie: We get along pretty good, but it's really not that simple. And you can't dismiss the singular most person is history because Man in his usual sloppy way prostituted Christs' message on Earth.

Originally Posted by Danzig

i just wish people would keep it simple. be good. be nice to people, don't be an ******* like rand says in his signature line. no one should have to preach to you (at you) for you to do the right thing. why does it have to involve a third party? why does some guy have to live a single, lonely life so he can tell you on sundays how to live?
i was raised a catholic. i haven't been to church in years, nor do i feel the lack. i've raised my kids to follow the golden rule. it's not rocket science!
do i believe a guy named jesus walked the earth? yes. do i think he set good examples about how to treat others? yes. what else do you need, or need to be told? all this judgemental crap...all the shooting, wars, crusades, it's all b.s. and the complete opposite of what religion is supposed to be about!

Z.

Have you met people that would interpret what you just wrote inadequate? I have met many. They would tell you... you have not been saved. I cannot make that determination. I will tell you that. When I ask these people how they would come to the conclusion that they have been saved, and that I have not... and continue the line of questioning. I often confuse them, or they stop listening and hide behind a shell of knowing without what I would consider satisfactory reasoning. It usually comes down to " I did not reason myself into this, I have faith" And I say but your faith had to involve some reasoning... and then it pretty much falls apart. They dont understand me, and I dont understand why they cant understand what I am trying to determine.

And my conclusion of their thinking becomes, dont ask so many questions and you will be fine. Accept, have faith, but dont inspect.