3YO preps; who really was the best horse in each race

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

A horse that closes in 11 and 3 when the horse in front still runs 12 and 2....C'mon how about Jazil in the Wood last year....They collapsed in front of him.

What about Jazil? He closed in the Wood, yes. The amount of the close was fairly large due to the race pace set-up, so what.

All a late close is is a pace differential at the end of the race, regardless of the speed of the leader.

The fact that No Biz was tiring less than the others and looked to have something left was not a mirage.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

What about Jazil? He closed in the Wood, yes. The amount of the close was fairly large due to the race pace set-up, so what.

All a late close is is a pace differential at the end of the race, regardless of the speed of the leader.

The fact that No Biz was tiring less than the others and looked to have something left was not a mirage.

My point Jim, and you've become quite disagreeable lately, is that all closes are not created equal. That's it.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

My point Jim, and you've become quite disagreeable lately, is that all closes are not created equal. That's it.

And my point Randall, is that of course all closes are not equal, but none of them are phoney or a mirage. They are what they are, and sometimes what you might call a phony closer ends up wearing the Roses.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

And my point Randall, is that of course all closes are not equal, but none of them are phoney or a mirage. They are what they are, and sometimes what you might call a phony closer ends up wearing the Roses.

Phony closers don't wear roses. They fill out superfectas....Monarchos was a fast closer. He ran fast races closing against fast horses. That's why he won....Giacomo was a one paced horse, he isn't even a closer. I'd say he's the worst Derby winner since Lil E Tee.

[Danzig]

lil e tee won 7 if 13... i'd say giacomo was the worst since gato del sol, not lil e tee. or since sea hero....but not the worst ever certainly.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

lil e tee won 7 if 13... i'd say giacomo was the worst since gato del sol, not lil e tee. or since sea hero....but not the worst ever certainly.

Correct me, but we discuss Beyers on here often. I believe Lil E Tee got a 93. That's super slow.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Correct me, but we discuss Beyers on here often. I believe Lil E Tee got a 93. That's super slow.

oh, so you're going by beyers....i thought it was overall accomplishment-or lack thereof.
but yeah, that's pretty slow. but if he looked good doing it, he should get his # revised upwards a bit.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Phony closers don't wear roses. They fill out superfectas....Monarchos was a fast closer. He ran fast races closing against fast horses. That's why he won....Giacomo was a one paced horse, he isn't even a closer. I'd say he's the worst Derby winner since Lil E Tee.

Arbitrary labels if you ask me; phony closer, worst Derby winner.
Phony closers as you define them win races every day of the week.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Phony closers don't wear roses. They fill out superfectas....Monarchos was a fast closer. He ran fast races closing against fast horses. That's why he won....Giacomo was a one paced horse, he isn't even a closer. I'd say he's the worst Derby winner since Lil E Tee.

For the record, Lil E Tee was a far superior horse than Giacomo. 7 of 13 career and on the board every single race he ran other than the Preakness.

13-7-4-1. That my friend is a damn good horse. Don't insult his connections by comparing him to Giacomo.

His Beyer in the Derby was 107.