Thoro-Graph

[golfer]

Robfla, been using TG's for about the last year and a half consistently. We kinda touched on this before when they were offering them for free the last week of December, but I would agree with the suggestion of using the Redboard room, where you can get the previous day's data for free, you can also get the analysis of certain cards, this way you can compare your picks to their's. The ROTW goes into more detail on reading patterns, very valuable. How long it takes to get proficient using them would certainly vary. As far as the bankroll question is concerned, agree with Scav; you need to be prepared to play all the races (although not necessarily for the same amount), I look at it as even if you don't have a strong opinion, the edge you get with the TG's is still enough to play the race. Finally, I recomend getting familiar with the full "Sheets", as opposed to the Thoro-quick, it's much easier to get a feel for the patterns, as opposed to just checking the numbers. I used thoro-quick for a while to save paper and ink, since switching to the full sheets, my handicapping has gotten much better, (unfortunately, my betting is still inconsistent).

[Scav]

Ask away, I am off work and ready to talk about Thorograph

[ELA]

Great thread and great info.

Eric

[Scav]

Alright, Rob has stage fright. Here is what Thorograph did for me or things to know

1) Use this as a TOOL and not your only information. I got caught into the trap about half way through, when I started doing really well, where I was just using the sheets and using the best three numbers, not a good way and I went broke fast. learning experience.

2) TG allows me to play tickets I like more often becuase it eliminates horses that I would have generally used. You can almost ALWAYS talk yourself into any horse for any specific reason. TG for me is used as a check point, where I can see if I am on the right path for the race. As I said earlier, I used to play pick threes that were 2x4x6 for $48 and I can now change that into a 2x2x3 ticket that I can play for 4 more times, thus when I hit the ticket, I am 4x richer. Less wasted opportunity and better use of funds. I rarely play just one pick three ticket in a race now, becuase I have more funds to play the ticket more times.

3) Some people use it for 'number' power which is fine, but you become REAL good when you use it for 'pattern' power. When you can start predicting a 'top' is when you start hitting some good tickets, and some great exactas

4) The one thing I love about TG is that Jerry Brown, owner of Thorograph, believes VERY STRONGLY in his product, he wants to be the BEST, and while it is argued, currently is the best. Determination like that usually doesn't go unrecogized or unsuccessful.

5) The ability to learn using their Redboard room is amazing. What I did was I wouldnt look at the results, I would get the changes for the day, and the next day I would go to the redboard room and download two tracks, I would then see I thought would run tops or win the race, given the conditions. Then look at the results. While it really doesn't mean much to pick a winner after the race was run, and their is alot more that goes into a wager then just TG sheets, it does get you comfortable with them and reading them 'pre-race'. I was fortunate to have people like Byk to lean on regarding reading numbers in my early stages. He still haven't taught me how to wager though (Which I believe no one can, it is something you just have to figure out IMO) The resources that you have here alone will help you. I wish more Rag guys would comment on their sheets here, it would be interesting to discuss them.

6) The abundance of information, while tiresome and somewhat overwhelming, will get you some winners. I was talking with Byk a couple weeks ago and told him that I was never using the trainer profiles until he started yapping about them, and since then I have found some real good priced winners just quickly scanning in there for some off the wall %'s, that no one besides TG have access to.

[golfer]

"3) Some people use it for 'number' power which is fine, but you become REAL good when you use it for 'pattern' power. When you can start predicting a 'top' is when you start hitting some good tickets, and some great exactas"

By the same token, you can also predict bounces or poor races based on identifying patterns you don't like. 2 examples from Saturday at Gulfstream:
Race 1, #1 Complex Goals, recent pattern was 6 (top), 11 and 8..for me the 8 was too close to the top (6), while not getting back to it, making this an unhealthy pattern.
Race 5, #6 British Attitude, recent pattern, 5, 5, then 2 (top), 2 was a 3 point top on turf, thought the horse would bounce off that number.

Now these are 2 examples that I was correct about.. many more that I was incorrecton (Stormy Ray@#@#), but we won't discuss them, although I would like to ask a question about Vicarian in the 4th race. Scav, did you have the TG's for Saturday? This is a horse I absolutely loved... his strange bolting of the turn RUINED my day. Any thoughts?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by golfer

"3) Some people use it for 'number' power which is fine, but you become REAL good when you use it for 'pattern' power. When you can start predicting a 'top' is when you start hitting some good tickets, and some great exactas"

By the same token, you can also predict bounces or poor races based on identifying patterns you don't like. 2 examples from Saturday at Gulfstream:
Race 1, #1 Complex Goals, recent pattern was 6 (top), 11 and 8..for me the 8 was too close to the top (6), while not getting back to it, making this an unhealthy pattern.
Race 5, #6 British Attitude, recent pattern, 5, 5, then 2 (top), 2 was a 3 point top on turf, thought the horse would bounce off that number.

Now these are 2 examples that I was correct about.. many more that I was incorrecton (Stormy Ray@#@#), but we won't discuss them, although I would like to ask a question about Vicarian in the 4th race. Scav, did you have the TG's for Saturday? This is a horse I absolutely loved... his strange bolting of the turn RUINED my day. Any thoughts?

Stormy Ray really pissed me off this weekend, that race was nutty, F'n Douglas just went nuts after getting smoked on DOA. GOD DAMN OMAGGIO JUST LOVES TO BURN MY MONEY. I had the TG's this weekend. I actually tossed Vicarian and had Zito's horses (although i didn't like the 1a, I liked the 1) and I had Pletchers firster (sucked in there)(got real lucky in this race as I should have known better on Zito's 1 horse, who ran hard in his first race out on the stretch out). the whole bounce thing is very subjective. I know one very good handicapper that swears it is BS but then you look at TG's and the 0-2=x is a pretty solid angle, especially in dirt racing and quick timing.

Explain

Race 1, #1 Complex Goals, recent pattern was 6 (top), 11 and 8..for me the 8 was too close to the top (6), while not getting back to it, making this an unhealthy pattern.

Was the pattern reading 6,11,8 as last race to first race or 8,11,6 as the 8 was his last race?

[golfer]

Three back was the top 6, two back was the 11, and his last race before Saturday was the 8.

The reason I liked Vicarion so much was that his most recent race, a 5, came attempting to close at 7 furlongs, 3 wide the whole race, very much against the bias. I thought 4 weeks rest was enough to overcome the effort, and with the trip he was getting (before he bolted!), I thought he was going to run off the screen, which he ended up doing at the turn. The 1a's debut race was a 12 or 13, which means he needed to jump up big time, or others would have had to regress (which happened, I don't know).

yeah, i was camera shy, just like some of my horses

anyways, thanks - esp scav and golf

that was valuable info, and definately what i was wondering. i'll keep lurking here and check out their website in more detail.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by robfla

yeah, i was camera shy, just like some of my horses

anyways, thanks - esp scav and golf

that was valuable info, and definately what i was wondering. i'll keep lurking here and check out their website in more detail.

Seriously man, REDBOARD ROOM, get on it as I expect you to be nailing races with more consistency, starting the Arlington meet