Appropriate punishment for animal cruelty

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't want part in any society that teaches kids to shoot guns and hunt. That's my qualm with using "we."

I understand...but while I agree with you, I am part of that "we" also!

[Danzig]

i just know what they told us there-that yes, you are supposed to use what was presented-but that you aren't supposed to completely ignore common knowledge, previous experience, etc. by the same token, you aren't supposed to consider things the judge says not to-such as if one lawyer asks a question and that questioning is halted, but the witness answers before objections being raised.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't want part in any society that teaches kids to shoot guns and hunt. That's my qualm with using "we."

it's the beauty of living here. everyone has rights, and everyone has the choice of whether or not to exercise those rights. but just because i choose to, or not to, i won't criticize anyone else for choosing differently. it'd be nice if everyone felt that way.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

it's the beauty of living here. everyone has rights, and everyone has the choice of whether or not to exercise those rights. but just because i choose to, or not to, i won't criticize anyone else for choosing differently. it'd be nice if everyone felt that way.

I usually agree, but hunting for the sake of hunting is, to me, one of the most despicable "activities" -- if you can call it that -- one can possibly participate in.

It's not as if it's just some alternate interest I don't understand. I don't understand plenty of stuff.. Opera, theater, painting, etc. But I'm not disgusted by any of it.

Hunters are disgusting and morally corrupt.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

On this issue we think almost scarily the same. I have never understood hunting for the sake of hunting as it is killing. You can disguise it as whatever you like but it is killing. I'll give you hunting if you are going to eat the meat, but just for kicks, sorry you are killing for the sake of killing. Remind me to not piss you off. I also don't get Opera, theatre, painting and etc but that is a whole other arguement.

Yep, count me in here too! I went hunting a couple times in WVa with my first wife's family...never shot anything, never wanted to...just figured I'd go with them and see what the attraction was. Ended up behind trees taking turns shooting at each other...did I mention we took several bottles of Southern Comfort along? Never got the thrill of hunting animals...after I got back from Nam, I realized that what I had been called upon to do for real was what these guys were role playing...not the same though, Charlie shot back, deers don't. As I've said (along with others here), if someone needs to hunt for food, I'm ok with that...but the rest???Why????

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I usually agree, but hunting for the sake of hunting is, to me, one of the most despicable "activities" -- if you can call it that -- one can possibly participate in.

It's not as if it's just some alternate interest I don't understand. I don't understand plenty of stuff.. Opera, theater, painting, etc. But I'm not disgusted by any of it.

Hunters are disgusting and morally corrupt.

well, i was going to get ticked off...but you said hunting for the sake of hunting, and i don't do that...

you can't buy venison in the store.

what i don't understand is:

if i go to the store, and buy meat someone else killed and eat it-that's ok.
but if i kill it, and then eat it, i'm disgusting and morally corrupt? i guess since someone else did the dirty work?

as for your comparison to opera, theatre etc...i was thinking more along the line of activities that some enjoy, while others don't and make moral judgements about. horse racing and gambling for instance. i can't recall anyone saying oh opera, i hate it--those singers are corrupt. but i have heard those arguments, and similar, regarding racing. oh those poor animals, how cruel. or the line a boy said to my daughter the other day when she mentioned barbaro had died. OH. horse racing. we're GOOD CHRISTIANS, we don't believe in gambling. so, he just pretty much summed her up as being a bad person, because she felt bad about barbaro.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Exactly. Not exactly sport when you have a weapon and the animals don't.

dahoss, the deer win far more battles then they don't. trust me on that one.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by The Bid

17 year olds do a lot of dumb things. Ive never killed or hurt an animal, but I would hate anything I did when I was 17 being held against me today.

Get them some professional help, make them pay some restitution, educate them a little on animal cruelty,and hope they grow up to be responsible adults.

F

it's a real shame that there are those that have more empathy for the criminals and or no sympathy for the victims.

if you don't know right and wrong at 17 you're never going to get it

[Gander]

If hunters wanted to be real sporting, hey wouldnt use guns, they would use their bare hands like Rambo. Their is nothing sporting about them. If you cant find another hobby to keep your life enjoyable other than killing animals, you are lame and should seek help. Bang!

[Danzig]

my big issue with all this is, if you don't want to hunt fine. but i don't see why anyone has to be so judgemental because they don't understand it.

how many of you like it when someone gets indignant about your enjoyment of racing and betting? does it bother you when you're judged for that? but it's ok for you to do the same to someone else when it's about a subject you don't like i suppose...

[Danzig]

and you all are aware that most money for wildlife management, for wildlife areas, comes from hunters, right?
did you know deer #'s are higher than during colonial times?
that members of the nwtf have brought wild turkey #'s to unprecedented levels. and no, hunters didn't almost run them to extinction-loss of habitat did. and guess who stepped up...yep, rotten hunters. the lot of them should be horse whipped.

[Gander]

Good question Danzig and believe me, I have lost certain "friends" along the way because of my devotion to horse racing & the gambling of it. I know many people think I am a bit of an oddball (aka loser) because I am not more interested in normal things like going to bars and playing in basketball leagues. To be honest I could care less about that, as long as I have respect from my wife and the few friends that count. Everyone else can say what they want.

I guess its because of the stereotype of horse player that one ses in OTBs. The bad rap hunting gets can also be attributed to the negative stereotype you see from hillbillies driving pick up trucks looking like they havent bathed in a longer time than the deer they are hunting and their badass attitude.

You arent erasing either one of these so if it means something to you go ahead and do it and dont listen to what others have to say. You only go around once baby.

[AeWingnut]

hunting is spiritual

and it is possible for Fruman to be a racist cop and for OJ to be guilty
regardless of the verdict

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Gander

Good question Danzig and believe me, I have lost certain "friends" along the way because of my devotion to horse racing & the gambling of it. I know many people think I am a bit of an oddball (aka loser) because I am not more interested in normal things like going to bars and playing in basketball leagues. To be honest I could care less about that, as long as I have respect from my wife and the few friends that count. Everyone else can say what they want.

I guess its because of the stereotype of horse player that one ses in OTBs. The bad rap hunting gets can also be attributed to the negative stereotype you see from hillbillies driving pick up trucks looking like they havent bathed in a longer time than the deer they are hunting and their badass attitude.

You arent erasing either one of these so if it means something to you go ahead and do it and dont listen to what others have to say. You only go around once baby.

yeah, my daughter had her first go 'round the other day about racing. i think she was a bit surprised at what the guy said. i told her she better get used to it. it's funny, i've been a fan of racing for years and years, but only recently started into the gambling part. still a very tentative bettor. she didn't expect the automatic equation of horse racing meaning gambling-meaning sin! lol

and too true about getting one trip--at least, i guess that's all we get. altho i have said before that in my next life, i want to be a middle linebacker in the nfl.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

hunting is spiritual

and it is possible for Fruman to be a racist cop and for OJ to be guilty
regardless of the verdict

i think folks who have never gone would be surprised at how it really is. i can't count how many days i've spent in the woods this year. get to see some awesome sights. lots of deer, squirrels, rabbits-and a beautiful red fox.
and i can count on one finger how many deer i brought back with me this year. i'd imagine people think there are bullets flying and deer dropping like flies.
one morning alone, in about three hours, my son and i got to see about two dozen deer, turkeys, raccoons and we had a hawk fly right by us. beautiful morning, and not a trigger pulled. we had a blast sitting and talking and just being outside.

[Gander]

I like being in the woods also, but preferrably running or biking on the trails. I dont have it in me to ever kill a beautiful deer. I dont think I'd have a problem shooting an intruder but an innocent deer? Nope.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Gander

I like being in the woods also, but preferrably running or biking on the trails. I dont have it in me to ever kill a beautiful deer. I dont think I'd have a problem shooting an intruder but an innocent deer? Nope.

innocent? you ought to see what that one did to my car! they're conniving i tell ya.

they are beautiful.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i think folks who have never gone would be surprised at how it really is. i can't count how many days i've spent in the woods this year. get to see some awesome sights. lots of deer, squirrels, rabbits-and a beautiful red fox.
and i can count on one finger how many deer i brought back with me this year. i'd imagine people think there are bullets flying and deer dropping like flies.
one morning alone, in about three hours, my son and i got to see about two dozen deer, turkeys, raccoons and we had a hawk fly right by us. beautiful morning, and not a trigger pulled. we had a blast sitting and talking and just being outside.

I have family that are so branwashed into hating guns. I tried to explain that it is actually more difficult to hunt with a hand gun than a shotgun. But was shouted down. so, I just smile and think.. family

My sister absolutely hated guns until I took her shooting. She had a blast

sorry



btw most of my guns are not for hunting. The right to arm bears is not about hunting

I love horseracing and look forward to the card at gulfstream
even if it looks a little chalky. Last week was GREAT!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I see what you are saying, but I think you are kind of misinterpreting what we are saying. It's not that I don't understand hunting, I just don't agree with it. I get the spiritual thing about being in the woods and seeing the animals, that stuff is great. So what I don't agree with is how you can be in the woods, see the animals and be moved by the experience and then either shoot one or take a shot at one. That seems odd to me.

i don't have a problem with people disagreeing. different strokes for different folks. i understand it seems odd to you, but it doesn't seem odd to me...also wish that the difference could be left at that, and not degenerate into name calling by some.
we're different. doesn't make one of us wrong, or one of us right.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

hunting is spiritual

and it is possible for Fruman to be a racist cop and for OJ to be guilty
regardless of the verdict

It's also possible that George Bush is an alien and Kerry is really Lurch reincarnated..."being possible" is hardly grounds for a guilty verdict. The problem with that case was the handling of the investigation by the LAPD from beginning to end. The LAPD has a terrible rep in minority community and this was certainly not their finest hour. The prosecution team was overmatched by OJ's "dream team"...that's sad but then, how many times is an innocent person convicted of a crime because they had to rely on a Public Defender who was either overworked, inept or simply not caring? It saddens me that the rich can buy their way out of trouble and that's another topic (remember me...the alleged communist/socialist/anarchist?) but here...Furman handled key evidence...are you sure he didn't tamper with or plant same? I'm not! There were unexplained problems with the prosecution's time line, a glove that didn't fit, lack of key evidence, sudden appearance of socks...on and on!