Non-winners of an Eclipse or Championship

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Had Alysheba won the Classic, it could have made things very interesting. I don't think at the time that the Classic held as much weight as it does now though. Back then, horses ran and faced other top contenders more often and with longer campaigns, there was a bigger body of work to look at than there is today. Today, u only have three or four other starts to look at and often, they don't face another marquee horse in most of them so the BC takes on more significance because it's one of the very few times we see them all together. Also, in 1987, the BC was still pretty much in its infancy (4th year) and wasn't quite the prestigious event it is today. I remember a few Eastern trainers didn't really care too much about coming out here. Mack Miller wasn't planning on sending Java Gold that year. Creme Fraiche won two JCGC's and didn't come either year. Personal Ensign skipped the 1987 Distaff. Forty Niner wasn't sent for the 1987 Juvenile. It took them a few years to get past the mentality that the fall races at Belmont were no longer considered the championship races. I feel that a JCGC win for Java Gold would have sealed it no matter the outcome of the Classic. I feel that had Alysheba won the Classic, it would have been looked at as another 3yo beating older that year (to go along with Polish Navy's Woodward, JG's Whitney and Marlboro, Gulch's Met Mile, Very Subtle's BC Sprint) and not even that good a group of older, considering Ferdinand would have been 3-10 on the year and was considered the best of the group.

I think the BC Classic was already shaping Eclipse thinking by 1987. IMO the BCC was a considered a good bit more important than the Woodward, Whitney or Marlboro. Doesn't Ferdinand's HOY demonstrate that?

--Dunbar

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

I think the BC Classic was already shaping Eclipse thinking by 1987. IMO the BCC was a considered a good bit more important than the Woodward, Whitney or Marlboro. Doesn't Ferdinand's HOY demonstrate that?

--Dunbar

I felt the door was opened by JG losing the JCGC. Had he won, the Classic would have been moot in my opinion. So no, I don't think Ferdinand's win demonstrated that. The Classic might have been more important than those other races as individual events but not when u put them together as a collection. At that time, a Whitney-Travers-Marlboro-JCGC resume would have outdone a Hollywood GC-Goodwood-BCC. At that time, the Goodwood was a grade three race too.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I felt the door was opened by JG losing the JCGC. Had he won, the Classic would have been moot in my opinion. So no, I don't think Ferdinand's win demonstrated that. The Classic might have been more important than those other races as individual events but not when u put them together as a collection. At that time, a Whitney-Travers-Marlboro-JCGC resume would have outdone a Hollywood GC-Goodwood-BCC. At that time, the Goodwood was a grade three race too.

I'll agree with your last 2 sentences. But I'll close my end of the discussion by saying I think a Kentucky Derby-Preakness-SuperDerby-BC Classic resume would have out trumped the Whitney-Travers-Marlboro-JCGC.

--Dunbar