CONTESSA: "..wanted to throw up"

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

But you just insinuated if he would've won the race going inside that it makes it ok, regardless of trainer instructions.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

But you just insinuated if he would've won the race going inside that it makes it ok, regardless of trainer instructions.

No, no one would have never known if it was or wasn't okay for Ramon to do what he did because the story wouldn't have blown up like it has. The only reason that we know it wasn't okay for him to do that in the first place is that a hole didn't open and he didn't win the race.

Sometimes, things happen in races and jockeys can't follow trainers instructions. However, I believe that they should try to follow them as closely as possible in any given race.

Going to the inside in a small field also depends on how much horse the rider has. If you don't have a whole lot of horse, but could possibly win the race by going inside and saving a little bit of ground, then go inside.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Going to the inside in a small field also depends on how much horse the rider has. If you don't have a whole lot of horse, but could possibly win the race by going inside and saving a little bit of ground, then go inside.

Yeah and it's obvious from the replay Ramon didn't have enough horse.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

I already admitted based on the trainer's commentary that Ramon made the wrong decision. However, you acted like it was always the wrong decision to take a horse to the inside in a small field. I just gave you examples of when it was okay to inform you on the matter.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I already admitted based on the trainer's commentary that Ramon made the wrong decision.

Why do you continue to push this subject with me?

Because you continue to want to try to start something with me because you don't like me for whatever reason?

...

Are you ok?

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

...

Are you ok?

Yeah, why? It was just two simple questions that you're avoiding answering.

[cmorioles]

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, a 3 to 5 shot should be ridden differently than your average horse. Two words...AVOID TROUBLE.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, a 3 to 5 shot should be ridden differently than your average horse. Two words...AVOID TROUBLE.

simply becuase theyre 3-5? like youve never saw a 3-5 shot that had no business being those odds

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, a 3 to 5 shot should be ridden differently than your average horse. Two words...AVOID TROUBLE.

Of course you're right, and anyone that has talked extensively to riders, which I have, knows that one of the toughest things about riding big favorites ( which obviously they would like to always do ) is making sure the horse does not lose due to jockey error. A good rider knows when he may need to help his mount and when he can only hurt it.

To the person who suggests that all 3:5s aren't the same....obviously this is true but in general, the better a mount the less chances a rider should, and usually does, take.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Yeah, why? It was just two simple questions that you're avoiding answering.

Disagreeing on this issue doesn't mean I don't like you. If I didn't like you I would take my toys and go home. I'd also probably throw a few and sit on the front porch and pout.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I already admitted based on the trainer's commentary that Ramon made the wrong decision. However, you acted like it was always the wrong decision to take a horse to the inside in a small field. I just gave you examples of when it was okay to inform you on the matter.

This even more ridiculous. NOBODY " acted like it was always the wrong decision to take a horse to the inside in a small field ". We were commenting on a SPECIFIC SITUATION, in fact only you were making gross generalizations, and I think ( unlike you apparently ) we are well aware that all situations offer different possibilities.

You were wrong yesterday and are insisting on making it worse today. At least Ramon admitted his stupidity....without trying to blame others.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This even more ridiculous. NOBODY " acted like it was always the wrong decision to take a horse to the inside in a small field ". We were commenting on a SPECIFIC SITUATION, in fact only you were making gross generalizations, and I think ( unlike you apparently ) we are well aware that all situations offer different possibilities.

You were wrong yesterday and are insisting on making it worse today. At least Ramon admitted his stupidity....without trying to blame others.

Actually, Pillow Pants said "going to the inside of 2 horses in a five horse field is okay?" I gave him examples where it was okay to do so.

I admitted that I was wrong, but I didn't know I was wrong yesterday because I didn't know the trainer's instructions, hadn't seen the trainer's and rider's commentary, and didn't know this particular horse's tendencies.

And another thing is that I wasn't making gross generalizations yesterday too. If you want to play that game, you were making gross generalizations when you didn't even know the trainer's instructions or the horse's tendencies. I even admitted in the thread yesterday in response to 2MINSTOPOST that he may be right and that my outlook may be wrong.

Also, I was saying that people needed to stop bashing jockeys as a whole, and those I am talking about know who they are. I was also referring to other threads over the past few days when I was talking about that. Also, I didn't try to chatise anyone, and I'm sorry if anyone took it that way.

And I'm not blaming others. Where I am I blaming others? Show me.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Actually, Pillow Pants said "going to the inside of 2 horses in a five horse field is okay?" I gave him examples where it was okay to do so.

I admitted that I was wrong, but I didn't know I was wrong yesterday because I didn't know the trainer's instructions, hadn't seen the trainer's and rider's commentary, and didn't know this particular horse's tendencies.

And another thing is that I wasn't making gross generalizations yesterday too. If you want to play that game, you were making gross generalizations when you didn't even know the trainer's instructions or the horse's tendencies. I even admitted in the thread yesterday in response to 2MINSTOPOST that he may be right and that my outlook may be wrong.

Also, I was saying that people needed to stop bashing jockeys as a whole, and those I am talking about know who they are. I was also referring to other threads over the past few days when I was talking about that. Also, I didn't try to chatise anyone, and I'm sorry if anyone took it that way.

And I'm not blaming others. Where I am I blaming others? Show me.

This nonsense about not being able to evaluate the ride without knowing the trainers's instructions really needs to stop. Anyone that knows the first thing about watching a race knew that what Ramon did yesterday was inexcusable. Are you trying to suggest that the trainer could have told him to find the path of MOST resistance?

It was a bad ride, that you defended yesterday, and were wrong. You were " blaming others " in that you were suggesting those of us that called it a bad ride were in any way out of line. We were not only NOT out of line....we were 100% correct.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This nonsense about not being able to evaluate the ride without knowing the trainers's instructions really needs to stop. Anyone that knows the first thing about watching a race knew that what Ramon did yesterday was inexcusable. Are you trying to suggest that the trainer could have told him to find the path of MOST resistance?

It was a bad ride, that you defended yesterday, and were wrong. You were " blaming others " in that you were suggesting those of us that called it a bad ride were in any way out of line. We were not only NOT out of line....we were 100% correct.

I did not call those of you who called it a bad ride way out of line. I called those who have been bashing jockeys way out of line.

Obviously, you either like starting stuff or need to learn how to read. Go back and read what I posted to 2MINSTOPOST in that thread yesterday.

[2MinsToPost]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This nonsense about not being able to evaluate the ride without knowing the trainers's instructions really needs to stop. Anyone that knows the first thing about watching a race knew that what Ramon did yesterday was inexcusable. Are you trying to suggest that the trainer could have told him to find the path of MOST resistance?

It was a bad ride, that you defended yesterday, and were wrong. You were " blaming others " in that you were suggesting those of us that called it a bad ride were in any way out of line. We were not only NOT out of line....we were 100% correct.

Stole a line I was going to use Andy. I was thinking about the comparison between a horse and electricity -

electricity follows the path of least resistance

what path did Ramon guide that mount

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Going to the inside in a small field also depends on how much horse the rider has. If you don't have a whole lot of horse, but could possibly win the race by going inside and saving a little bit of ground, then go inside.

More importantly, I think you're missing one huge thing. The only basis for defending him that would hold ANY weight is the notion that were he trying to save ground if he didn't think he had a lot of horse on the turn, one could perhaps find a TINY space in their heart to cut him some slack.

You keep talking about saving ground, but they were on the straight. Simple geometry says that there is no ground to be "saved" on a straight stretch of racetrack.

Though I am not an expert horse rider, so that may impact my math and reasoning skills...

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

More importantly, I think you're missing one huge thing. The only basis for defending him that would hold ANY weight is the notion that were he trying to save ground if he didn't think he had a lot of horse on the turn, one could perhaps find a TINY space in their heart to cut him some slack.

You keep talking about saving ground, but they were on the straight. Simple geometry says that there is no ground to be "saved" on a straight stretch of racetrack.

Though I am not an expert horse rider, so that may impact my math and reasoning skills...

I wasn't talking about Ramon's ride when I posted that. I was talking about, in general, when a jockey needs to go to the inside in a race.