Strong Pretender Excuses Thread

[Sightseek]

I should add that I don't think you condone that behavior either, I just felt bad for the guy who had to read that about his horse.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I should add that I don't think you condone that behavior either, I just felt bad for the guy who had to read that about his horse.

I bet Mr. Klanfer didnt feel to bad when PV crossed the line 1st today

[GPK]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Definitely got the last laugh on that. And I'll admit, half the reason I bet Pink Viper today was because of that. I just hope gander got down on that.

He did...and he was kind enough to call me while I was at the OTB and remind me. $5 ex was about the only thing I hit all day..

when they start paying 3 of 4 in pick 4's and 2 of 3 in pick 3's...GPK will be one very rich man..

[GPK]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You and me both man. Twice at Aqueduct and because I am a real degenerate 3 times tonight at meadowlands. Glad Gander had PV because I know he was mentioning it for a few days.

Almost stayed and played The Big M tonight...but after my bet in the 1st (#8 D. Miller was in the bike I think) finished about 7th...I knew it was time for me to get out quickly.

[Getaway]

This thread is completely ridiculous. After one race you people can actually just forget about a horse. I'm not denying the fact that Strong Contender may not be able to compete in this high a level (make no mistake, this field was much more competitive than many grade I's). All of this aside, he is still a very nice horse, and one that I'm sure that anyone would love to own. Every horse can't win every race. Strong Contender finished in the money in every race prior to this one. I don't care what level you're running at, it is still impressive. To tell you the truth, I was very impressed with the way that Sweetnorthernsaint ran. Even though he was third, I truly think he ran against the toughest horses in his career (aside from Bernardini). I am definitely looking for him to move forward from this race, I think he will be a major contender in this year's classics. Sir Greeley on the other hand ran a terrific race, and it looks like we are going to have a great year with him. He gave 6 pounds to the winner, and got beat an inch. What more can you ask for? I'm sure as hell not gunna give up on him.

[SentToStud]

I'm just glad to see some successful 3 yos come back to race at 4.

Not every horse wins every race. In fact every horse does not.

Opinions about which horse is no good or not good enough can be expressed best at the wagering windows.

Doesn't make much sense to denigrate a horse on a message board.

I was glad to see them (SNS, SC) back running as well as seeing Declan's Moon trying to come back as well.

I was also glad to see Kelly's Landing run huge (tho I didn't bet him). 5 yo is the 6F track record holder at Churchill. I wonder how many 6F races have been run at CD. Thousands? Tens of thousands? No one has run as fast there than Kelly's Landing and to see him come back strong yesterday was something special.

[Gander]

Glad Gander had PV because I know he was mentioning it for a few days.

Not nearly enough Da Hoss, the day as a whole was awful and the only ticket I cashed is a win bet on PV. I tried to beat the favorite in the last in doubles and didnt have the 7th race so there went my pick 4's. Awful day which should have been a big day. Just disgusting but I am glad Outofthebox won when so many know it alls on here made the horse out to have no chance.

[Kasept]

Sniper..

There's no need to apologize for starting the thread or feeling that you shouldn't express critical opinions. In terms of calling jockey's "gnomes" or horses "goats", I can't police and legislate every post, every thread, every minute, every day. As it happens, both of those comments were responded to in a manner that appropriately debunked the poster who made the silly references.

That pair of comments are examples of isolated, individual boorishness. The theme of this thread though is an example of a much larger, and vitally more important trend around the game. For my part, I'm sorry if my response was overly harsh, and I wasn't trying to single you out as a villain. It just hit a chord with me though as it set the responses in a direction that has an undertone all too prevelent in the game, and sports in general these days: the ridiculing of loser(s) as opposed to the complimenting of winner(s).

John Ward made it clear before the race that the Donn and Santa Anita Handicap were his targets for Strong Contender. Mike Trombetta made it clear that the Sunshine Millions Classic was his target for Saint. McLaughlin made it clear that the Gulfstream Park H. or Donn was the target for Jazil. While trainers and connections would love to win every race they enter, conditions and situations preclude that they are going to...

Unfortunately, we live in an era of racing where we don't get to see our horse heroes run as frequently as in generations past, and because of that, we tend to ovedrvalue, and be hyper-critical, of every single perfolrmance because we have so few performances to go on anymore.

The most telling example of this was the hyper-critique overkill of Bernardini post-BC Classic. In a perfect world, we'd get to see Bernardini at least all this year in maybe 2-3 more matchups versus Invasor, Premium Tap and this year's 4 year olds. Only then could we truly determine if Bernardini was a true great or near great or better than average. Instead, he loses by a length to a fabulous and nearly undefeated champion six months his elder, and is decried a "fraud" by many eager to tear down anything that resembles a quality runner.

Because our opportunities to evaluate horses are limited in this era of the abbreviated career, there is an incredible rush to judgement on every single animal from the second they hit they the track. We are so anxious to annoint a "next superstar" that any 2 year old that wins impressively and earns a big figure is instantly set up for criticism and ridicule with any subsequent
"failing".

Not to get into the why's and wherefores of this, but the short-sightedness of the breeding community and lack of leadership within industry management has created a terrible scenario whereby fans have little to grab on to in terms of continuity and sustained adulation of horses. Because racing is a pari-mutuel based enterprise, it elicits strong opinions in its' fan base, and I'm not looking to limit anyone's predilections.

But we have to be appreciative of what we have, and Saturday's Mr. Prospector was a race worthy of appreciation for a variety of reasons. The winner emerged as a serious racehorse and set a track record in an excellent race that saw three quality runners with a chance to win at the finish. While it makes sense to include the fact that Strong Contender was not ready for a competitive effort as part of its' evaluation, I was of the opinion that the more reasonable focus of the post script was the action at the front of the pack.

[todko]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The most telling example of this was the hyper-critique overkill of Bernardini post-BC Classic. In a perfect world, we'd get to see Bernardini at least all this year in maybe 2-3 more matchups versus Invasor, Premium Tap and this year's 4 year olds. Only then could we truly determine if Bernardini was a true great or near great or better than average. Instead, he loses by a length to a fabulous and nearly undefeated champion six months his elder, and is decried a "fraud" by many eager to tear down anything that resembles a quality runner.

I agree for the most part Kasept. With Bernardini however I think the level of hype was appalling enough to deserve some critique. The critique should have really been directed more at the racing press instead of the horse. Beyer is a perfect example -- he cranks superstar figures for a horse that beats weak/injured fields and then when Bernardini loses to a relatively mediocre performance by Invasor -- Beyer instantly changes his tune and says, "Bernardini is no superstar".

Like I said before -- if some of the racing press worked in the financial services industry they would be in jail for fraud. Yeah, I know, it's gambling -- but the betting public (especially the novice) bettors deserve a fair shake from the "experts". Maybe they'd stick around and become horseplayers if so many weren't led astray from the start.

Just my $2 worth.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Sniper..

There's no need to apologize for starting the thread or feeling that you shouldn't express critical opinions. In terms of calling jockey's "gnomes" or horses "goats", I can't police and legislate every post, every thread, every minute, every day. As it happens, both of those comments were responded to in a manner that appropriately debunked the poster who made the silly references.

That pair of comments are examples of isolated, individual boorishness. The theme of this thread though is an example of a much larger, and vitally more important trend around the game. For my part, I'm sorry if my response was overly harsh, and I wasn't trying to single you out as a villain. It just hit a chord with me though as it set the responses in a direction that has an undertone all too prevelent in the game, and sports in general these days: the ridiculing of loser(s) as opposed to the complimenting of winner(s).

John Ward made it clear before the race that the Donn and Santa Anita Handicap were his targets for Strong Contender. Mike Trombetta made it clear that the Sunshine Millions Classic was his target for Saint. McLaughlin made it clear that the Gulfstream Park H. or Donn was the target for Jazil. While trainers and connections would love to win every race they enter, conditions and situations preclude that they are going to...

Unfortunately, we live in an era of racing where we don't get to see our horse heroes run as frequently as in generations past, and because of that, we tend to ovedrvalue, and be hyper-critical, of every single perfolrmance because we have so few performances to go on anymore.

The most telling example of this was the hyper-critique overkill of Bernardini post-BC Classic. In a perfect world, we'd get to see Bernardini at least all this year in maybe 2-3 more matchups versus Invasor, Premium Tap and this year's 4 year olds. Only then could we truly determine if Bernardini was a true great or near great or better than average. Instead, he loses by a length to a fabulous and nearly undefeated champion six months his elder, and is decried a "fraud" by many eager to tear down anything that resembles a quality runner.

Because our opportunities to evaluate horses are limited in this era of the abbreviated career, there is an incredible rush to judgement on every single animal from the second they hit they the track. We are so anxious to annoint a "next superstar" that any 2 year old that wins impressively and earns a big figure is instantly set up for criticism and ridicule with any subsequent
"failing".

Not to get into the why's and wherefores of this, but the short-sightedness of the breeding community and lack of leadership within industry management has created a terrible scenario whereby fans have little to grab on to in terms of continuity and sustained adulation of horses. Because racing is a pari-mutuel based enterprise, it elicits strong opinions in its' fan base, and I'm not looking to limit anyone's predilections.

But we have to be appreciative of what we have, and Saturday's Mr. Prospector was a race worthy of appreciation for a variety of reasons. The winner emerged as a serious racehorse and set a track record in an excellent race that saw three quality runners with a chance to win at the finish. While it makes sense to include the fact that Strong Contender was not ready for a competitive effort as part of its' evaluation, I was of the opinion that the more reasonable focus of the post script was the action at the front of the pack.

This is all so true.

I love everything from reading about bloodlines, learning of great champions and pick 3's and 4's, but most of all I love the horses running. Being this sort of fan isn't the easiest thing on a forum or following the sport due to the failure of management to recognize that there are fans as well as people who bet, own or breed thoroughbreds. The fan is the often forgot element in this because they are not supporting the sport heavily with their betting dollar or ownership, but they are an important part of the community of racing. If the horse isn't retired prematurily, I'm told I can't think my favorite race was the Belmont Stakes. I may have been born in 1978, but it doesn't mean I don't know who Secretariat, Dr. Fager and Buckpasser were and how good they were. The difference is, horses like Jazil, Memorette, Bernardini and Saint Liam ran when I was watching...they bring me out to the track. So I guess what I'm really trying to say is; I understand your message and as usual it's a good one. Be thankful for what we have.

[ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

This is all so true.

I love everything from reading about bloodlines, learning of great champions and pick 3's and 4's, but most of all I love the horses running. Being this sort of fan isn't the easiest thing on a forum or following the sport due to the failure of management to recognize that there are fans as well as people who bet, own or breed thoroughbreds. The fan is the often forgot element in this because they are not supporting the sport heavily with their betting dollar or ownership, but they are an important part of the community of racing. If the horse isn't retired prematurily, I'm told I can't think my favorite race was the Belmont Stakes. I may have been born in 1978, but it doesn't mean I don't know who Secretariat, Dr. Fager and Buckpasser were and how good they were. The difference is, horses like Jazil, Memorette, Bernardini and Saint Liam ran when I was watching...they bring me out to the track. So I guess what I'm really trying to say is; I understand your message and as usual it's a good one. Be thankful for what we have.

I agree completely, Sightseek.

Although I do bet, that's just one part of the game, and not the best part. I also love the big things about this game -- the excitement, the grandeur, the history. And I love the little things, like the smell of the dirt when I'm leaning on the rail watching the first race post parade on a perfect summer day. But most of all, I love the horses.

I can't say what it is exactly that affects me so. I see one throw a wild eye, or give a thundering snort, and I'm struck by both their fragility and power. Personally, I would never call a horse -- any horse -- a goat. Maybe it's because I'm an outsider, not around racing every day, and not yet become cynical of the people or inured to the sight of the animals. Win or lose, I think they're magnificent.

On the other hand, I don't condemn people because they sometimes express themselves in blunt terms. That's part of what makes this site interesting, and free speech is part of what makes this country great. (Having said that, I recognize that this site is not really a public forum, although Steve allows the public to participate, and that Steve has every right to control the content). Also, everybody goes for the cheap laugh sometimes, and what they say isn't necessarily what they really feel.