More HISA Stupidity

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Todd Mostoller (Commonwealth New Era Racing) dealing with same from Dufrasne's run a few Sunday's ago. Carmouche 10 (maybe, maybe not.. video inconclusive) and they're taking the 4th place money ($5k+). To add to insult to injury, they told him they would have the hearing Sunday at 1p so he cancelled plans and then by 1:30p after asking what the hell was going on, they said they couldn't reach Carmouche in time so no hearing. He's enraged. And apparently now, the whole thing is supposedly getting kicked back to New York State to be handled. So what was the point of HISA if not to have centralized management of common rules? It's farcical.

Great word.

What happens to the purse money is this an ex post facto DQ is the money distributed to next in line. If that is the case shouldn't this count be done before making the race official so this asinine rule could at least be fair for the players whose horses get put up later. Then once the race is official that is it. No reviewing it 25 times later.

[parsixfarms]

Who is doing the counting of the number of strikes with the crop? Are they doing this for every horse in every race, or only when something looks amiss? With all the rough riding that has been tolerated in New York the past few years, the idea that this is what the Saratoga stewards are focused on is truly concerning.

[King Glorious]

I read a suggestion somewhere that perhaps, they should do something progressive. First time, the jockey is penalized and the owner given a warning. Second time, owner can lose 25% of the purse. Next time, 50%. I still don’t think that’s great but better than what’s happening now. This way, the owner is penalized only if they continue to use a guy that habitually crosses “the line.”

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Who is doing the counting of the number of strikes with the crop? Are they doing this for every horse in every race, or only when something looks amiss? With all the rough riding that has been tolerated in New York the past few years, the idea that this is what the Saratoga stewards are focused on is truly concerning.

The On Track Stewards are looking at the counts on a race by race basis. When I was in Colorado I would also look at every race later that night.

If I wasn't 100% sure it wasn't counted as a strike.

When we had riders in for film review the following morning.

We'd show that rider the film and have him and his rep who was also there count the strikes themselves. All we sanctioned agreed with the total.

We had a few in the 7 to 9 range which resulted in a $500 fine and a 1 day suspension.

We had ONE purse redistribution when the rider gave his horse 11 strikes. He counted them and agreed with the number.

This resulted in the owner losing 3rd place money.

I have to say it felt pretty weird writing that ruling.

But we had NO CHOICE in the matter. The rules are clear in the HISA handbook. HISA was enacted by congress and it's NOT going away.

As the meet went on you could SEE the riders being much more conscious of the rule and IMO adapting beautifully.

We did have one jock who seemed to be losing his stick quite often. We asked him about it. He said that after 5 strikes he threw it away so there was no way he could get banged.

Credit was given for an interesting idea. He was asked to cease this practice!

Originally Posted by jms62

Great word.

What happens to the purse money is this an ex post facto DQ is the money distributed to next in line. If that is the case shouldn't this count be done before making the race official so this asinine rule could at least be fair for the players whose horses get put up later. Then once the race is official that is it. No reviewing it 25 times later.

HISA rules are VERY CLEAR that regardless of the number of strikes and severity of the penalty. Riding crop violations can NEVER impact Pari-Mutuel payoffs.

[freddymo]

Serious question. Has anyone on this board been "whipped" with the latest crops? I have seen and touched them, but I have never had someone slug me on the leg wearing a pair of jeans. My guess is it wouldn't be that painful, and I am 183 pounds with human skin, not an 1100-pound horse with skin that is relatively thick. I am sure it is not joyful to be cracked with a crop by a jock, and abuse is NEVER ok, but this seems like pure drama crap.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Serious question. Has anyone on this board been "whipped" with the latest crops? I have seen and touched them, but I have never had someone slug me on the leg wearing a pair of jeans. My guess is it wouldn't be that painful, and I am 183 pounds with human skin, not an 1100-pound horse with skin that is relatively thick. I am sure it is not joyful to be cracked with a crop by a jock, and abuse is NEVER ok, but this seems like pure drama crap.

Try reaching out on a Dating App you may get takers.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by jms62

Try reaching out on a Dating App you may get takers.

Mrs. Mo (3) don't play

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Mrs. Mo (3) don't play

Maybe Mrs. Mo (4) will. Take enough 20 foot putts and you will sink one.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by jms62

Try reaching out on a Dating App you may get takers.

This was one of the funniest one-liners that I have ever seen on a message board. Well played.

Originally Posted by freddymo

Serious question. Has anyone on this board been "whipped" with the latest crops? I have seen and touched them, but I have never had someone slug me on the leg wearing a pair of jeans. My guess is it wouldn't be that painful, and I am 183 pounds with human skin, not an 1100-pound horse with skin that is relatively thick. I am sure it is not joyful to be cracked with a crop by a jock, and abuse is NEVER ok, but this seems like pure drama crap.

I had a colleague smack my arm with the new crop. Gently at first and then harder. On about the 4th try it stung and left a mark. He could have probably hit about twice as hard which would have stung like hell.

I came away thinking a 1000lb race horse running 30 mph "might" be slightly annoyed or perhaps scared by the sound.

I saw ZERO evidence to make me conclude that a horse could be ABUSED with that crop. If used within the rules.