USC kills Notre Dame

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

it's not just "defeating" that I'm interested in. i'm interested in Michigan nearly pulling off the upset of OSU, and of course my entire post was predicated on the notion that OSU is going to demolish Florida....not just barely beat them.

Bring the Rose Bowl matchip to Ann Arbor, MI yesterday and the game is completely different



You got it, that's the shorthand version of what I'm saying.

USC beat Michigan like a redheaded stepchild. If it were even close at the end, I could see your point but with 7 minutes to go it was 32-11. Henne was sacked six times in the first half alone.

Why are there always these endless excuses for the big blue? "if that game were in ann arbor instead of columbus, michigan would be playing for the title". "if that game were in ann arbor, MI yesterday, the game is completely different".

Same old song and dance every year for their blind fans.

Listen, Ive been watching Michigan choke for the last 25 years. Lloyd Carr got completely outcoached and their defensive backfield got completely schooled. The difference in overall team speed was ridiculous.

They could play that game ANYWHERE and Michigan still loses as they do almost EVERY TIME they play USC. Is that 6 out of the last 7 now?

This game wasnt close and the game against OSU wasnt nearly as close as the score made it appear.

Michigan had a good year. They will be tough next year. But to say that they are better than SC? That is a complete joke.

[Gander]

Bring the Rose Bowl matchip to Ann Arbor, MI yesterday and the game is completely different

Spoken like a true Big Ten fan. Its exactly why I root for teams like Michigan, Penn State and Ohio State to lose. Big Ten fans cant admit their team was inferior in every way. They use the excuse of where the game was played, as if that accounted for the huge difference in yards gained and points gained.
Stick to your music, you would never be a good sports analysist. Too much of a bias. Instead of giving the other team credit, you bring up the fact that they lost to UCLA 4 weeks ago. What does that have anything to do with them pounding on Michigan?

By the way, everybody acts like this was an upset. Check out the spread that was anywhere between 1 and 2.5 points (michigan favored) depending on where you bet. Thats not that much respect for a team who only lost by 3points to Ohio State against a lowly team like USC, who got beat by a very medicore (at best) UCLA. Seems to me like the spread should have been Michigan by 10, but it was hardly that.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Gander

Bring the Rose Bowl matchip to Ann Arbor, MI yesterday and the game is completely different

Spoken like a true Big Ten fan. Its exactly why I root for teams like Michigan, Penn State and Ohio State to lose. Big Ten fans cant admit their team was inferior in every way. They use the excuse of where the game was played, as if that accounted for the huge difference in yards gained and points gained.
Stick to your music, you would never be a good sports analysist. Too much of a bias. Instead of giving the other team credit, you bring up the fact that they lost to UCLA 4 weeks ago. What does that have anything to do with them pounding on Michigan?

By the way, everybody acts like this was an upset. Check out the spread that was anywhere between 1 and 2.5 points (michigan favored) depending on where you bet. Thats not that much respect for a team who only lost by 3points to Ohio State against a lowly team like USC, who got beat by a very medicore (at best) UCLA. Seems to me like the spread should have been Michigan by 10, but it was hardly that.

well them losing to UCLA has everything to do with it, when we're talking about their "pounding" of Michigan indicating that they're a better football team. if we're going to use head to head matchups to determine that one team better than another -- then we're right back at having the tough debate as to whether oregon st. is better than USC, aren't we? i've never claimed that USC was "lowly," I just don't think they're a better football team than Michigan. You won't find anyone on any board who has been around me for any of the last five years who recalls me ever being a Big Ten apologist, or an any team apologist for that matter....because I have never been one. This is the first time in my entire life that I've claimed anything like this regarding college football (oh wait, i don't want to be a liar. i did the same thing for florida st. when they had charlie ward and notre dame beat them but i still thought florida state was the better team when i was maybe about 10 years old. wouldn't want to get caught in that fishy situation of you unearthing a witness to that!) -- because I'm not one to go blindly to bat for a team just because of their conference or where I live. It's a battle I've chosen specifically because they're not a better team than Michigan.

You can point to any number of results like that -- teams win games when they are not the better team all the time. From your point of view, I'd imagine you're apalled and calling for an NFL playoff overhaul because they Cleveland Browns didn't get in. Heck, they beat both Kansas City and the New York Jets and both of those teams get to be in the playoffs.

Makes sense right? Of course it doesn't -- just because the Browns beat both of those teams doesn't mean they are a better football team.

Those are the kinds of claims you end up making when you just say "well USC pounded Michigan, so they're a better team." Of course they just pounded Michigan, so what? **** happens. It doesn't make them a better football team just because they won.

[dr. fager]

I don't know what the battle is really about here, as a Michigan fan I was pretty disgusted outplayed and outcoached. Why it took them 2 1/2 quarters to put Henne in the shotgun blows my mind. USC had a great game plan they stopped the run.....and that was that.

and Gander please....Big Ten fans are no worse than Red Sox fans.....

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by dr. fager

I don't know what the battle is really about here, as a Michigan fan I was pretty disgusted outplayed and outcoached. Why it took them 2 1/2 quarters to put Henne in the shotgun blows my mind. USC had a great game plan they stopped the run.....and that was that.

and Gander please....Big Ten fans are no worse than Red Sox fans.....

the battle is that having one terrible game doesn't make a team necessarily worse than another, that's all.

[Gander]

If the game was closer I would tend to agree and throw it out. But it wasnt.
Michigan got crushed and it was more than just where they played the game.
We could argue all day who the better team is, truth be told, better is a very oblivious word. I personally dont care, have no strong liking for either school, just a pretty big anti fan of Big Ten teams, not as strong as my hatred for the Yankees, but I root against them nonetheless.

I agree about Red Sox fans, they can be pretty obnoxious too. I love them but I am more in love with the sport than I am with the Red Sox and tend to be pretty non bias when I speak of baseball.

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by Gander

I agree about Red Sox fans, they can be pretty obnoxious too. I love them but I am more in love with the sport than I am with the Red Sox and tend to be pretty non bias when I speak of baseball.

Oh, I been around long enough...I know you are. Just a friendly jab.

UM didn't play their best game, but I also won't make excuses for them.

Does the big ten hatred stem more from b-ball...I know you're not a huge cfb fan. just curious.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Gander

If the game was closer I would tend to agree and throw it out. But it wasnt.
Michigan got crushed and it was more than just where they played the game.
We could argue all day who the better team is, truth be told, better is a very oblivious word. I personally dont care, have no strong liking for either school, just a pretty big anti fan of Big Ten teams, not as strong as my hatred for the Yankees, but I root against them nonetheless.

Just for the sake of airing it out, since you mentioned that you don't have a strong liking for either team -- I don't have any longstanding commitment to any team in America in college football. I used to love Florida State -- and have only paid attention to college football the last few years because of living in Oregon and now in Ann Arbor -- the atmosphere dictated that I pay attention to it. I really couldn't care less about UM, but I think it's insane that they're getting dogged the way they are because they played ONE really terrible game...a game that I don't think determined who was the better team one bit.

[Gander]

I was shocked the spread wasnt higher in this game. Thought for sure given the Big Ten's reputation and the fact that Mich barely lost to Ohio State and USC looked pretty mediocre losing to a very so-so UCLA, that the spread would be more like Mich by 7.

I realize where the game was played, but cmmon. Something about that spread screamed "bet USC."

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

well them losing to UCLA has everything to do with it, when we're talking about their "pounding" of Michigan indicating that they're a better football team. if we're going to use head to head matchups to determine that one team better than another -- then we're right back at having the tough debate as to whether oregon st. is better than USC, aren't we? i've never claimed that USC was "lowly," I just don't think they're a better football team than Michigan. You won't find anyone on any board who has been around me for any of the last five years who recalls me ever being a Big Ten apologist, or an any team apologist for that matter....because I have never been one. This is the first time in my entire life that I've claimed anything like this regarding college football (oh wait, i don't want to be a liar. i did the same thing for florida st. when they had charlie ward and notre dame beat them but i still thought florida state was the better team when i was maybe about 10 years old. wouldn't want to get caught in that fishy situation of you unearthing a witness to that!) -- because I'm not one to go blindly to bat for a team just because of their conference or where I live. It's a battle I've chosen specifically because they're not a better team than Michigan.

You can point to any number of results like that -- teams win games when they are not the better team all the time. From your point of view, I'd imagine you're apalled and calling for an NFL playoff overhaul because they Cleveland Browns didn't get in. Heck, they beat both Kansas City and the New York Jets and both of those teams get to be in the playoffs.

Makes sense right? Of course it doesn't -- just because the Browns beat both of those teams doesn't mean they are a better football team.

Those are the kinds of claims you end up making when you just say "well USC pounded Michigan." So what? It doesn't make them a better football team.

I agree, Brian...

The truth is... these are humans and humans have off days (much like horses.) When the team isn't playing as a true "team", then they're not going to play their best. It was obvious to me (neutral person) that Michigan did NOT play their best and therefore the Rose Bowl was not a good indication of who is actually the better football team. JMO...