Clearly there was no intention to come over?

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I'm all for that. Just stop with the tinfoil hat stuff.

What is tinfoil about it? There's no question that in other jurisdictions both Irad and Garcia would absolutely have the book thrown at them and then some. With the example of Irad, if he can do something like that 10 times and maybe get DQ'ed once with no or a small suspension, you can damn well bet he's going to continue riding that way.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Kitan

What is tinfoil about it? There's no question that in other jurisdictions both Irad and Garcia would absolutely have the book thrown at them and then some. With the example of Irad, if he can do something like that 10 times and maybe get DQ'ed once with no or a small suspension, you can damn well bet he's going to continue riding that way.

I think you nailed it with the comment many riders will do what they can as long as they get away with it.

Under the guise of "did it cost a horse a placing" has allowed for a lot of latitude by the riders since the stewards dont dq a horse unless that standard has been met. I would prefer there still be a stiff penalty even if a horse is not dq'd.

In terms of hearding, I am fine with it as long as two things do not happen, you do not take the other horse off the path they are on and you dont bump them.

I would also be a fan of a "foul is a foul" dq...this would clean things up right quick.

careless riding can get people hurt. I made a post about another rider I thought was dangerous in socal, so this isnt some kind of vendetta.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Kitan

What is tinfoil about it? There's no question that in other jurisdictions both Irad and Garcia would absolutely have the book thrown at them and then some. With the example of Irad, if he can do something like that 10 times and maybe get DQ'ed once with no or a small suspension, you can damn well bet he's going to continue riding that way.

The tinfoil part is pretending you can read the jockey's mind and laying out the absolute most cynical interpretation imaginable as fact. Saying that Irad was trying to hurt people and Garcia was stiffing his horse. Just disgraceful and embarrassing, coming from people who have probably never been on a horse in their lives.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The tinfoil part is pretending you can read the jockey's mind and laying out the absolute most cynical interpretation imaginable as fact. Saying that Irad was trying to hurt people and Garcia was stiffing his horse. Just disgraceful and embarrassing, coming from people who have probably never been on a horse in their lives.

Who said he was "trying" as intentionally trying to take down Davis...his move was careless and could have resulted, it was intentional that he was trying to get onto the rail.

Who said Garcia was stiffing the horse, I said you need to ride your horses out so it does not look suspicious to the many casual fans that watch these races.

read rather than set up straw man arguments.

I have worked with better horses than most, that much I am sure of.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Who said he was "trying" as intentionally trying to take down Davis...his move was careless and could have resulted, it was intentional that he was trying to get onto the rail.

Who said Garcia was stiffing the horse, I said you need to ride your horses out so it does not look suspicious to the many casual fans that watch these races.

read rather than set up straw man arguments.

I have worked with better horses than most, that much I am sure of.

Cute. Your insinuations were that Irad was willing to take Davis down just to get over to the rail (completely dismissing out of hand the horse freaking out, which is laughably apparent from the head-on) and that Garcia was more than just overconfident and may have "pulled the horse in some kind of scheme." Real brave to insinuate those things, then back off and pretend you're just playing devil's advocate. Again, embarrassing, and something that only the anonymity of the internet would allow.

[Kitan]

I don't think it has anything to do with hiding behind the internet. We, let alone the stewards, have every right to question Garcia why he "failed to ride his horse to the finish" properly. Same goes for Irad and his careless/reckless riding; it is definitely not "laughably apparent" the horse spooked. Even if it seems more likely that the horse spooked than not, don't gloss over the fact that Irad is notorious for this type of riding in the first place.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Kitan

I don't think it has anything to do with hiding behind the internet. We, let alone the stewards, have every right to question Garcia why he "failed to ride his horse to the finish" properly. Same goes for Irad and his careless/reckless riding; it is definitely not "laughably apparent" the horse spooked. Even if it seems more likely that the horse spooked than not, don't gloss over the fact that Irad is notorious for this type of riding in the first place.

Questioning rides is perfectly fine, and I do it plenty. But to definitively project these sinister motivations onto jockeys when there are more plausible explanations is just lame and irresponsible.

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Questioning rides is perfectly fine, and I do it plenty. But to definitively project these sinister motivations onto jockeys when there are more plausible explanations is just lame and irresponsible.

So you don't think there's an issue with the fact that something like this happens and most immediately cry foul towards Irad's tactics because one can easily imagine him doing that? I think that is the main point. Say it is clear cut that the horse spooked. The fact that a lot of individuals immediately assume Irad did it on purpose shows there is a problem with his riding style that sooner or later may unfortunately be devastating.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Cute. Your insinuations were that Irad was willing to take Davis down just to get over to the rail (completely dismissing out of hand the horse freaking out, which is laughably apparent from the head-on) and that Garcia was more than just overconfident and may have "pulled the horse in some kind of scheme." Real brave to insinuate those things, then back off and pretend you're just playing devil's advocate. Again, embarrassing, and something that only the anonymity of the internet would allow.

its pointless discussing with you, the pretty pony forum is missing you.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

its pointless discussing with you, the pretty pony forum is missing you.

And the OTB full of miserable derelicts blaming jockeys for every one of their losing bets is missing you.