Weekend Stakes Beyers: Arrogate 115

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Not too many last-to-first 115s that I can think of off the top of my head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxLI014JEDQ

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by Kitan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxLI014JEDQ

Couldn't get a better setup though.

[cakes44]

What was Midnight Lute's BSF in the 2007 BC sprint? I think Benny the Bull was even further back than him in that race though...

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by Kitan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxLI014JEDQ

Ghostzapper was one hell of a horse

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Ghostzapper was one hell of a horse

Yup he was, but at this point Arrogate has surpassed him.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Yup he was, but at this point Arrogate has surpassed him.

I don't compare horses of this quality unless they run against each other. Its too hard and would be splitting hairs.

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

I don't compare horses of this quality unless they run against each other. Its too hard and would be splitting hairs.

I agree. Ghostzapper may have been more versatile based on winning Grade 1's
Sprinting and routing, but I doubt we'll ever find out if Arrogate can do the same (and it really shouldn't matter, based on his immense talent).

[Dunbar]

Great race by Arrogate, but I think Jay Hovdey's DRF article on assessing greatness is on the mark:

http://www.drf.com/news/hovdey-asses...storys-lessons

[Indian Charlie]

His Travers was impossible to believe when I watched it. It was infinitely more impressive to me than the DWC. I never thought he was in serious trouble in the race (he is at least ten lengths better than everyone else, and in fact, has beaten Gun Runner by double digit lengths) while in the Travers he pulled away by daylight after setting a pretty healthy pace.

I'd have to rate his Travers as one of the most impressive, if not the most impressive, races I've ever seen. It was also certainly the most unbelievable performance, beating Cee's Tizzy's maiden win for making me think I just saw something impossible.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

I don't compare horses of this quality unless they run against each other. Its too hard and would be splitting hairs.

Cant one argue GZ was a tad dressed up. Huge # in the slop at Monmouth and then an uncontested soft pace in the the Classic, where i have read some sort of deal was made that GZ and Rosses in May wouldn't kill each other early on. I think GZ was great, but closer to the horse we saw beat St Liam when he ran like a 114 beyer rather then a 120 type monster.
Thats what Arrogate is. Just a big monster who can break last do something hes never had to do still win in hand and run a 115 beyer.

[cakes44]

Awesome discussion about GZ vs Arrogate. One thing I'll throw out there is that I think Arrogate would have a really hard time keeping up with serious sprinters at 6-7f, whereas GZ absolutely embarrassed them.

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Ghostzapper was one hell of a horse

he had a 128 beyers in 2004

[richard burch]

Beyer speculated that had his figures existed in 1973, Secretariat would have scored 139 in his classic 1973 win at the Belmont Stakes.

highest figures all-time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyer_Speed_Figure