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  #1  
Old 03-27-2017, 02:28 PM
Kitan Kitan is offline
Gulfstream Park
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakes44 View Post
Not too many last-to-first 115s that I can think of off the top of my head.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxLI014JEDQ
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  #2  
Old 03-27-2017, 02:46 PM
RHT2004 RHT2004 is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
 
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Couldn't get a better setup though.
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  #3  
Old 03-27-2017, 02:51 PM
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cakes44 cakes44 is offline
The Curragh
 
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What was Midnight Lute's BSF in the 2007 BC sprint? I think Benny the Bull was even further back than him in that race though...
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  #4  
Old 03-27-2017, 03:26 PM
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knickslions2 knickslions2 is offline
Longchamps
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitan View Post
Ghostzapper was one hell of a horse
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  #5  
Old 03-27-2017, 03:36 PM
RHT2004 RHT2004 is offline
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Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
Ghostzapper was one hell of a horse
Yup he was, but at this point Arrogate has surpassed him.
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  #6  
Old 03-27-2017, 04:02 PM
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knickslions2 knickslions2 is offline
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Originally Posted by RHT2004 View Post
Yup he was, but at this point Arrogate has surpassed him.
I don't compare horses of this quality unless they run against each other. Its too hard and would be splitting hairs.
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  #7  
Old 03-27-2017, 04:23 PM
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lemoncrush lemoncrush is offline
Randwyck
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
I don't compare horses of this quality unless they run against each other. Its too hard and would be splitting hairs.
I agree. Ghostzapper may have been more versatile based on winning Grade 1's
Sprinting and routing, but I doubt we'll ever find out if Arrogate can do the same (and it really shouldn't matter, based on his immense talent).
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  #8  
Old 03-27-2017, 05:03 PM
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Dunbar Dunbar is offline
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Great race by Arrogate, but I think Jay Hovdey's DRF article on assessing greatness is on the mark:

http://www.drf.com/news/hovdey-asses...storys-lessons
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Curlin and Hard Spun finish 1,2 in the 2007 BC Classic, demonstrating how competing in all three Triple Crown races ruins a horse for the rest of the year...see avatar
photo from REUTERS/Lucas Jackson
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  #9  
Old 03-27-2017, 06:48 PM
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Indian Charlie Indian Charlie is offline
Goodwood
 
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His Travers was impossible to believe when I watched it. It was infinitely more impressive to me than the DWC. I never thought he was in serious trouble in the race (he is at least ten lengths better than everyone else, and in fact, has beaten Gun Runner by double digit lengths) while in the Travers he pulled away by daylight after setting a pretty healthy pace.

I'd have to rate his Travers as one of the most impressive, if not the most impressive, races I've ever seen. It was also certainly the most unbelievable performance, beating Cee's Tizzy's maiden win for making me think I just saw something impossible.
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  #10  
Old 03-27-2017, 07:10 PM
RHT2004 RHT2004 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
I don't compare horses of this quality unless they run against each other. Its too hard and would be splitting hairs.
Cant one argue GZ was a tad dressed up. Huge # in the slop at Monmouth and then an uncontested soft pace in the the Classic, where i have read some sort of deal was made that GZ and Rosses in May wouldn't kill each other early on. I think GZ was great, but closer to the horse we saw beat St Liam when he ran like a 114 beyer rather then a 120 type monster.
Thats what Arrogate is. Just a big monster who can break last do something hes never had to do still win in hand and run a 115 beyer.
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  #11  
Old 03-27-2017, 08:51 PM
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cakes44 cakes44 is offline
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Awesome discussion about GZ vs Arrogate. One thing I'll throw out there is that I think Arrogate would have a really hard time keeping up with serious sprinters at 6-7f, whereas GZ absolutely embarrassed them.
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  #12  
Old 03-29-2017, 09:51 PM
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richard burch richard burch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
Ghostzapper was one hell of a horse
he had a 128 beyers in 2004
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  #13  
Old 03-29-2017, 09:51 PM
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richard burch richard burch is offline
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Beyer speculated that had his figures existed in 1973, Secretariat would have scored 139 in his classic 1973 win at the Belmont Stakes.

highest figures all-time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyer_Speed_Figure
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