Derby Trail Forums

Go Back   Derby Trail Forums > Stakes Archive
Reload this Page Weekend Stakes Beyers: Arrogate 115
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-27-2017, 09:12 AM
cakes44's Avatar
cakes44 cakes44 is offline
The Curragh
  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,745
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up View Post
Best 115 of all time...LOL
Not too many last-to-first 115s that I can think of off the top of my head.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-27-2017, 11:49 AM
casp0555's Avatar
casp0555 casp0555 is offline
Saratoga
  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Humble,Texas
Posts: 19,028
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakes44 View Post
Not too many last-to-first 115s that I can think of off the top of my head.
__________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say, fools talk because they have to say something" - Plato
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-27-2017, 12:31 PM
cakes44's Avatar
cakes44 cakes44 is offline
The Curragh
  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,745
Default
Though I'm certain Secretariat's Preakness would qualify if they made a BSF for it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-27-2017, 01:38 PM
Thunder Gulch's Avatar
Thunder Gulch Thunder Gulch is offline
Churchill Downs
  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southland Greyhound Park
Posts: 1,846
Default
This is an obvious case where the number most definitely doesn't begin to tell the story.
__________________
Do I think Charity can win? Well, I am walking around in yesterday's suit.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-27-2017, 02:28 PM
Kitan Kitan is offline
Gulfstream Park
  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Other side of the globe
Posts: 1,208
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakes44 View Post
Not too many last-to-first 115s that I can think of off the top of my head.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxLI014JEDQ
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-27-2017, 02:46 PM
RHT2004 RHT2004 is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
  
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,829
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitan View Post
Couldn't get a better setup though.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-27-2017, 02:51 PM
cakes44's Avatar
cakes44 cakes44 is offline
The Curragh
  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,745
Default
What was Midnight Lute's BSF in the 2007 BC sprint? I think Benny the Bull was even further back than him in that race though...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-27-2017, 03:26 PM
knickslions2's Avatar
knickslions2 knickslions2 is offline
Longchamps
  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 13,672
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitan View Post
Ghostzapper was one hell of a horse
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-27-2017, 03:36 PM
RHT2004 RHT2004 is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
  
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,829
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
Ghostzapper was one hell of a horse
Yup he was, but at this point Arrogate has surpassed him.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-27-2017, 04:02 PM
knickslions2's Avatar
knickslions2 knickslions2 is offline
Longchamps
  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 13,672
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by RHT2004 View Post
Yup he was, but at this point Arrogate has surpassed him.
I don't compare horses of this quality unless they run against each other. Its too hard and would be splitting hairs.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-27-2017, 04:23 PM
lemoncrush's Avatar
lemoncrush lemoncrush is offline
Randwyck
  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Blaine, MN
Posts: 1,408
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
I don't compare horses of this quality unless they run against each other. Its too hard and would be splitting hairs.
I agree. Ghostzapper may have been more versatile based on winning Grade 1's
Sprinting and routing, but I doubt we'll ever find out if Arrogate can do the same (and it really shouldn't matter, based on his immense talent).
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-27-2017, 05:03 PM
Dunbar's Avatar
Dunbar Dunbar is offline
The Curragh
  
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,962
Default
Great race by Arrogate, but I think Jay Hovdey's DRF article on assessing greatness is on the mark:

http://www.drf.com/news/hovdey-asses...storys-lessons
__________________
Curlin and Hard Spun finish 1,2 in the 2007 BC Classic, demonstrating how competing in all three Triple Crown races ruins a horse for the rest of the year...see avatar
photo from REUTERS/Lucas Jackson
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-27-2017, 07:10 PM
RHT2004 RHT2004 is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
  
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,829
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
I don't compare horses of this quality unless they run against each other. Its too hard and would be splitting hairs.
Cant one argue GZ was a tad dressed up. Huge # in the slop at Monmouth and then an uncontested soft pace in the the Classic, where i have read some sort of deal was made that GZ and Rosses in May wouldn't kill each other early on. I think GZ was great, but closer to the horse we saw beat St Liam when he ran like a 114 beyer rather then a 120 type monster.
Thats what Arrogate is. Just a big monster who can break last do something hes never had to do still win in hand and run a 115 beyer.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-27-2017, 08:51 PM
cakes44's Avatar
cakes44 cakes44 is offline
The Curragh
  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,745
Default
Awesome discussion about GZ vs Arrogate. One thing I'll throw out there is that I think Arrogate would have a really hard time keeping up with serious sprinters at 6-7f, whereas GZ absolutely embarrassed them.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-29-2017, 09:51 PM
richard burch's Avatar
richard burch richard burch is offline
Churchill Downs
  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: new jersey
Posts: 1,752
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
Ghostzapper was one hell of a horse
he had a 128 beyers in 2004
__________________
Support your local Re-run or horse rescue organization.
https://www.rerunottb.com/:)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-29-2017, 09:51 PM
richard burch's Avatar
richard burch richard burch is offline
Churchill Downs
  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: new jersey
Posts: 1,752
Default
Beyer speculated that had his figures existed in 1973, Secretariat would have scored 139 in his classic 1973 win at the Belmont Stakes.

highest figures all-time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyer_Speed_Figure
__________________
Support your local Re-run or horse rescue organization.
https://www.rerunottb.com/:)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-27-2017, 09:34 PM
RolloTomasi's Avatar
RolloTomasi RolloTomasi is offline
Oriental Park
  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,612
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakes44 View Post
Not too many last-to-first 115s that I can think of off the top of my head.
Victory Gallop, Wagon Limit, Milwaukee Brew, Festin, Aptitude, Real Quiet, Tejano Run, Unbridled, Turkoman, Pleasant Tap, Pleasantly Perfect...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-28-2017, 09:20 PM
RHT2004 RHT2004 is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
  
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,829
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi View Post
Victory Gallop, Wagon Limit, Milwaukee Brew, Festin, Aptitude, Real Quiet, Tejano Run, Unbridled, Turkoman, Pleasant Tap, Pleasantly Perfect...
Loved Victory Gallop. His Whitney vs Behrens is one of my favorites. Talk about premature move.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-28-2017, 10:02 PM
RolloTomasi's Avatar
RolloTomasi RolloTomasi is offline
Oriental Park
  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,612
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by RHT2004 View Post
Loved Victory Gallop. His Whitney vs Behrens is one of my favorites. Talk about premature move.
I remember his Stephen Foster being visually impressive. Can't find a video of it though.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-28-2017, 10:45 PM
richard burch's Avatar
richard burch richard burch is offline
Churchill Downs
  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: new jersey
Posts: 1,752
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi View Post
Victory Gallop, Wagon Limit, Milwaukee Brew, Festin, Aptitude, Real Quiet, Tejano Run, Unbridled, Turkoman, Pleasant Tap, Pleasantly Perfect...
Zenyatta ....was "dead last!" in the B.C. and most of her other races . had an Equibase fig of 126 in 2009 compared to 124 for A.gate
__________________
Support your local Re-run or horse rescue organization.
https://www.rerunottb.com/:)
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Display Modes
Hybrid Mode Hybrid Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:00 PM.

Contact Us - Derby Trail Steve Byk Steve’s Notes DT Stables DT Shoppe Gallery Contact Links Archive - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.