Songbird

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Lol you guys make my head spin. I respect your opinion Andy but Songbird controlled race and got beat by nose in bob. She was second best. Forever unbridled wasn't catching either horse.

I don't agree. She was able to set a VERY moderate pace, partly with the help of her owner's usual trainer's horse riding shotgun, and further keeping Beholder out. Given the dynamics, Forever Unbridled probably ran a better race. It may be close....but it's close at worst:-)

The problem with a lot of Songbird's fans ( and I am not saying this is you ) is that they had completely unrealistic expectations going in. If you bet her at even money, you made a horrendous bet, as even under perfect circumstances ( slow pace, Stellar Wind not showing up, and Beholder getting pushed wide ) she lost. Sure it was close. Sure she ran well. No sane person criticized Songbird going in, they simply said she was a bad bet at a short price. Isn't that exactly what proved the case?

Regardless, it was a thrilling race. Hopefully everyone enjoyed it. I sure as hell did. Maybe some of us even learned something from it. What could be better than all that?

[saratogadew]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't agree. She was able to set a VERY moderate pace, partly with the help of her owner's usual trainer's horse riding shotgun, and further keeping Beholder out. Given the dynamics, Forever Unbridled probably ran a better race. It may be close....but it's close at worst:-)

The problem with a lot of Songbird's fans ( and I am not saying this is you ) is that they had completely unrealistic expectations going in. If you bet her at even money, you made a horrendous bet, as even under perfect circumstances ( slow pace, Stellar Wind not showing up, and Beholder getting pushed wide ) she lost. Sure it was close. Sure she ran well. No sane person criticized Songbird going in, they simply said she was a bad bet at a short price. Isn't that exactly what proved the case?

Regardless, it was a thrilling race. Hopefully everyone enjoyed it. I sure as hell did. Maybe some of us even learned something from it. What could be better than all that?

Bringing me down
i"m running around
Bling in the light of the interstate cars
passin" me by
busses and semi's
plungin' like stones............................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................i left st louie.....city of blues
SMOKIN

[saratogadew]

OOHH OOHH im drowing in you>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[King Glorious]

If honesty is to rule, it wasn't simply saying she was a bad bet at a short price. That would be a rational way of thinking that probably shouldn't be argued against. But the ridicule was towards anyone daring to believe she was good enough. We were told that she didn't have a race as fast as theirs. That it was ridiculous to believe she could do better if asked to. That she was lengths slower. The fact is that if she had lost by 10 and wasn't a factor, we would have heard it from them. But with her acquitting herself the way she did, you're seeing a bunch of hurt feelings and reluctant praise and revisionist accounts of what people said before.

[Conrad]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't agree. She was able to set a VERY moderate pace, partly with the help of her owner's usual trainer's horse riding shotgun, and further keeping Beholder out. Given the dynamics, Forever Unbridled probably ran a better race. It may be close....but it's close at worst:-)

The problem with a lot of Songbird's fans ( and I am not saying this is you ) is that they had completely unrealistic expectations going in. If you bet her at even money, you made a horrendous bet, as even under perfect circumstances ( slow pace, Stellar Wind not showing up, and Beholder getting pushed wide ) she lost. Sure it was close. Sure she ran well. No sane person criticized Songbird going in, they simply said she was a bad bet at a short price. Isn't that exactly what proved the case?

Regardless, it was a thrilling race. Hopefully everyone enjoyed it. I sure as hell did. Maybe some of us even learned something from it. What could be better than all that?

Because no one dared go with her, just as I suspected.
The problem with all the Songbird detractors is that they apparently don't study pace, where she had a huge advantage. What was Smith supposed to do when clear by 2-3 lengths down the backside? Push the button?
The pace was slow because she made all the pace and no one wanted anything to do with her up there.

So Larry Jones sent Chatterbox in there just to "ride shotgun" and make things tougher for Beholder? Is that what you're REALLY suggesting Andy?
lolol

[saratogadew]

RELAX.
fun times ahaed

[Alabama Stakes]

Good luck arguing with someone who doesn't have the education to admit when he is wrong

She failed her biggest test just like Zenyatta. Just don't you dare say the same about Easy Goer though

[Conrad]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Good luck arguing with someone who doesn't have the education to admit when he is wrong

She failed her biggest test just like Zenyatta. Just don't you dare say the same about Easy Goer though

This ^^^

"But, but...Easy Goer had to run further and cover more ground than SS"
-the entire state of New York

[saratogadew]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Good luck arguing with someone who doesn't have the education to admit when he is wrong

She failed her biggest test just like Zenyatta. Just don't you dare say the same about Easy Goer though

EASY GOER....................meh

[LITF]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Good luck arguing with someone who doesn't have the education to admit when he is wrong

She failed her biggest test just like Zenyatta. Just don't you dare say the same about Easy Goer though

Zenyatta LOST her biggest test she didn't FAIL. You could argue the same today with Songbird. She should lose nothing just because of half a nose. Two champions. No need to knock either. Great race.

[Alabama Stakes]

Except Songbird won. See avatar

[jms62]

Originally Posted by LITF

Zenyatta LOST her biggest test she didn't FAIL. You could argue the same today with Songbird. She should lose nothing just because of half a nose. Two champions. No need to knock either. Great race.

Two great horses gutting it out and we get this thread knocking either horse. DEPLORABLE!!

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by LITF

Zenyatta LOST her biggest test she didn't FAIL. You could argue the same today with Songbird. She should lose nothing just because of half a nose. Two champions. No need to knock either. Great race.

Well said!

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by Conrad

Because no one dared go with her, just as I suspected.
The problem with all the Songbird detractors is that they apparently don't study pace, where she had a huge advantage. What was Smith supposed to do when clear by 2-3 lengths down the backside? Push the button?
The pace was slow because she made all the pace and no one wanted anything to do with her up there.

So Larry Jones sent Chatterbox in there just to "ride shotgun" and make things tougher for Beholder? Is that what you're REALLY suggesting Andy?
lolol

Did we watch the same race? That's exactly how it played out.