Canterbury cutting takeout to lowest in US

[JohnGalt1]

That was a 33% increase over opening night last year.

[Kasept]

Gary Palmisano of CD offered this rough cut of the numbers..

2015: $632k (20.4% blended T/O) = 129k revenue
2016- $845k (16.5% blended T/O) = 139k revenue

Handle +30% = Revenue +$10k

[Pants II]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Gary Palmisano of CD offered this rough cut of the numbers..

2015: $632k (20.4% blended T/O) = 129k revenue
2016- $845k (16.5% blended T/O) = 139k revenue

Handle +30% = Revenue +$10k

They're all like..."Eureka!"

And we be like..."Told you so!"

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Pants II

They're all like..."Eureka!"

And we be like..."Told you so!"

I'm not as high on reduced takeout as the magic bullet as others but the opposite was absolutely true with CD's inane decision to raise takeout "because they could" after adding the September meet. Handle tanked.

[tector]

I love their turf racing. I visited the track a couple of years ago and was very impressed. After the first couple of weeks, when they switch to 4 days a week, you usually get 3 turf races a day, with 8 or more horses. SoCal should be so lucky.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by tector

I love their turf racing. I visited the track a couple of years ago and was very impressed. After the first couple of weeks, when they switch to 4 days a week, you usually get 3 turf races a day, with 8 or more horses. SoCal should be so lucky.

Definitely.. Their turf race fields have averaged 9 the last few summers.

[Holybull1]

Many people probably don't know about the unusual OTB/ADW rules in Minnesota. Well actually there is no OTB at all because a state amendment vote failed many years back. Thus, MN players are allowed to have ADW accounts but are blocked from betting Canterbury's signal.

So for the most part their best potential customers (MN bettors) must be on track to bet their races. This has improved slightly as you can now bet at Running Aces, the harness track in the northern suburbs.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by philcski

I'm not as high on reduced takeout as the magic bullet as others but the opposite was absolutely true with CD's inane decision to raise takeout "because they could" after adding the September meet. Handle tanked.

Phil..

Please don't perpetuate myths, or lies, here. CD raised takeout in an attempt to maintain their purse structure so as not to lose horses to other jurisdictions. While the decision was simplistic and myopic, it wasn't done just 'because they could'.

It's unbalanced that there is never an acknowledgement in discussions on this topic that they are surrounded by casino-fueled states (IN, OH, PA, WV) and are without the luxury of alternate revenues like KY Downs/Ellis (Instant Racing funding) or Keeneland (Sales Company funding).

And in terms of dollars and cents, their pricing remained rather fair. Their rates on WPS were industry low-ish (16%) and were raised to a middling 17.5%. Their multi horse and and multi rate rake was industry low-ish (19%) and went to a rather typical 22%, lower than NY and CA on most multis.

[Pants II]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Phil..

Please don't perpetuate myths, or lies, here. CD raised takeout in an attempt to maintain their purse structure so as not to lose horses to other jurisdictions. While the decision was simplistic and myopic, it wasn't done just 'because they could'.

It's unbalanced that there is never an acknowledgement in discussions on this topic that they are surrounded by casino-fueled states (IN, OH, PA, WV) and are without the luxury of alternate revenues like KY Downs/Ellis (Instant Racing funding) or Keeneland (Sales Company funding).

And in terms of dollars and cents, their pricing remained rather fair. Their rates on WPS were industry low-ish (16%) and were raised to a middling 17.5%. Their multi horse and and multi rate rake was industry low-ish (19%) and went to a rather typical 22%, lower than NY and CA on most multis.

Steve they didn't want the IRT's and mostly due to elitism. They didn't want the "local" clientele at their pristine facility.

Even though they could've used Louisville Downs.

I've been following the casino push in Kentucky for years. They were incredibly short-sighted in not taking IRT's. Embarrassingly bad decision really. It's like they don't have a clue how the Commonwealth operates.

Once they're put in they're in. Now they're out. Dumb.

[Pants II]

Louisville Downs was the perfect location for IRT's. They had plenty of space and remodeling wouldn't cost them much in their bottom line.

I was baffled at the time they didn't want it. Poplar Level is degenerate central. Would've done well.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Pants II

Steve they didn't want the IRT's and mostly due to elitism. They didn't want the "local" clientele at their pristine facility.

Even though they could've used Louisville Downs.

I've been following the casino push in Kentucky for years. They were incredibly short-sighted in not taking IRT's. Embarrassingly bad decision really. It's like they don't have a clue how the Commonwealth operates.

Once they're put in they're in. Now they're out. Dumb.

Originally Posted by Pants II

Louisville Downs was the perfect location for IRT's. They had plenty of space and remodeling wouldn't cost them much in their bottom line.

I was baffled at the time they didn't want it. Poplar Level is degenerate central. Would've done well.

You're right Coach.. On all counts. They believed that gaming was coming their way. Beshear let everyone down who elected him on the expanded gambling platform.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Phil..

Please don't perpetuate myths, or lies, here. CD raised takeout in an attempt to maintain their purse structure so as not to lose horses to other jurisdictions. While the decision was simplistic and myopic, it wasn't done just 'because they could'.

It's unbalanced that there is never an acknowledgement in discussions on this topic that they are surrounded by casino-fueled states (IN, OH, PA, WV) and are without the luxury of alternate revenues like KY Downs/Ellis (Instant Racing funding) or Keeneland (Sales Company funding).

And in terms of dollars and cents, their pricing remained rather fair. Their rates on WPS were industry low-ish (16%) and were raised to a middling 17.5%. Their multi horse and and multi rate rake was industry low-ish (19%) and went to a rather typical 22%, lower than NY and CA on most multis.

My opinion and my opinion only, however the below confirms the ability to increase takeout was based solely on the addition of the September meet- (not lies/myths)- diluting the on-track average to below the dividing line set by Kentucky law (clearly to separate CD/KEE from KD/Ellis/Turfway.)

Here's the thing... they can maintain purse levels without doing anything different, but it might have a negative impact on their stock price. Their 'corporate spin' is it's to protect the purse account but in reality that's a pittance relative to their total revenues. They did $1.2 billion in revenue in 2015, their net income was $65.5 million... a 2-3% increase in takeout for just Derby weekend nets them a cool ~$7 million without doing anything, thus increasing their net profits by 10% and theoretically their stock price the same. Their takeout was (and still is) reasonable because the state law says so, not because CHDN is a bunch of great guys.

There's also no reason they can't get Instant Racing set up at Trackside. The religious nuts have given up the fight in Kentucky so there is no potential legal battle looming. In addition, the neighboring states are not really offering similar condition books- Indiana Downs, for example, has raised it's product significantly but currently runs about 50% of their races for Indiana breds and several other low conditioned claiming races a week, which leaves maybe 5-10 crossover races a week- the same dynamic as NYRA versus Parx or Monmouth.

I love Churchill Downs as a venue and wagering option. The takeout difference is not going to prevent me from betting on their product when I like what they're offering. But this is just another misstep by a company more concerned with the bottom line than putting out a great racing product.


http://www.drf.com/news/churchill-do...-takeout-rates


"John Asher, a spokesman for Churchill, said the track’s management raised the takeouts to sustain current purse levels at the track. However, Asher acknowledged that Churchill and its horsemen will split the additional revenue raised by the maneuver under the terms of its existing live-racing contract, which gives horsemen 51 percent of wagering revenue and Churchill 49 percent."

"Churchill would not have been able to legally raise its takeout rates if the track had not held its first-ever September meet last year. Under Kentucky law, tracks with an average live ontrack handle of $1.2 million or more a day cannot charge a takeout higher than 16 percent on straight wagers and 19 percent on exotic wagers. Tracks under the $1.2 million average threshold can charge 17.5 percent and 22 percent.

Asher said the average did not dip below $1.2 million until last year, based entirely on the influence of the 12-day September meet."

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by philcski

My opinion and my opinion only, however the below confirms the ability to increase takeout was based solely on the addition of the September meet- (not lies/myths)- diluting the on-track average to below the dividing line set by Kentucky law (clearly to separate CD/KEE from KD/Ellis/Turfway.)

Here's the thing... they can maintain purse levels without doing anything different, but it might have a negative impact on their stock price. Their 'corporate spin' is it's to protect the purse account but in reality that's a pittance relative to their total revenues. They did $1.2 billion in revenue in 2015, their net income was $65.5 million... a 2-3% increase in takeout for just Derby weekend nets them a cool ~$7 million without doing anything, thus increasing their net profits by 10% and theoretically their stock price the same. Their takeout was (and still is) reasonable because the state law says so, not because CHDN is a bunch of great guys.

There's also no reason they can't get Instant Racing set up at Trackside. The religious nuts have given up the fight in Kentucky so there is no potential legal battle looming. In addition, the neighboring states are not really offering similar condition books- Indiana Downs, for example, has raised it's product significantly but currently runs about 50% of their races for Indiana breds and several other low conditioned claiming races a week, which leaves maybe 5-10 crossover races a week- the same dynamic as NYRA versus Parx or Monmouth.

I love Churchill Downs as a venue and wagering option. The takeout difference is not going to prevent me from betting on their product when I like what they're offering. But this is just another misstep by a company more concerned with the bottom line than putting out a great racing product.

September meet was also a response to need on the circuit due to the inability of Turfway to maintain the season at a level befitting the time of year. As discussed with Coach, they certainly made a tactical error assuming that gaming was coming and didn't want to utilize Instant Racing. (I haven't asked if they'll revisit that.) Regarding the revenue side of things, anyone would expect - demand even - that a publicly traded company attempt to maximize their profit opportunities. Except it seems when it comes to CDI.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Gary Palmisano of CD offered this rough cut of the numbers..

2015: $632k (20.4% blended T/O) = 129k revenue
2016- $845k (16.5% blended T/O) = 139k revenue

Handle +30% = Revenue +$10k

I'll definitely be playing there some. I love the idea of low takeout.

[Cpt.Bodgit]

I've never even look at Canterbury before but I'm going to play for sure just to do my part and they are rewarded for helping the players out.

[JohnGalt1]

They announced on their website that Saturday's total handle was up 20% over last year's Preakness day handle.

That's somewhat surprising with all the afternoon competition.

I expect the night time cards will get the bigger boost.