Good Lord another pletcher freak

[SentToStud]

Many of the people on this post deriding this colt's effort as well as generalizing that early 2yo sprints are simply just speedfests obviously did not see the race. Coming into the race off just two very modest reported works, this colt broke last and really just loped his way to within 2-3 lengths of the leaders at the 1/4 pole. When the straightend out and he changed leads, he ran tremendously quick for about 1/8 of a mile. Beajarano had him wrapped up the final 100-150 yards and he still finished up in very quick timeHe was obviously ready to run and run well. Whether or not he makes noise next spring is really not important, at least to me, since so many things can happen between now and then. I also think that Pletcher is probably a very good judge of what's best for his horse and I cannot imagine he'd run this colt -- or any horse for that matter -- too soon or too often. I just really enjoyed seeing an obviously talented 2yo win off so impressively easy and look forward to seeing him again against tougher competition.

[Thunder Gulch]

Another Thunder Gulch Baby..more where that came from

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Many of the people on this post deriding this colt's effort as well as generalizing that early 2yo sprints are simply just speedfests obviously did not see the race. Coming into the race off just two very modest reported works, this colt broke last and really just loped his way to within 2-3 lengths of the leaders at the 1/4 pole. When the straightend out and he changed leads, he ran tremendously quick for about 1/8 of a mile. Beajarano had him wrapped up the final 100-150 yards and he still finished up in very quick timeHe was obviously ready to run and run well. Whether or not he makes noise next spring is really not important, at least to me, since so many things can happen between now and then. I also think that Pletcher is probably a very good judge of what's best for his horse and I cannot imagine he'd run this colt -- or any horse for that matter -- too soon or too often. I just really enjoyed seeing an obviously talented 2yo win off so impressively easy and look forward to seeing him again against tougher competition.

Stud. upon reading Picking Winners by Andy beyer back in my young teens in the 80's I immediately embraced the concept of watching races and taking trip and bias notes. What Beyer said just clicked with me. The concept that not all the things that happen in a trip can be posted in a little running line seemed to make sense to me. Therefore the people I respect most in this game are folks like yourself who also watch races before they comment on anything. It became really clear to me once again that most people here don't watch races and comment on things that they haven't even seen, which to be is incredulous. I would no sooner comment on the performance of a pitcher in a baseball game that I didn't watch than I would on a nuclear physics equation.
The point yesterday wasn't what he will do 11 months from now, the point was that anyone who watches races and understands internal fractions had to be like you and I were, amazed. I've been watching races hardcore for 20 years and That debut was in the top three I ever saw. Personal Ensign's debut will never be topped in my mind, I knew that first start that she was agonna be the greatest filly I would ever see. I wish they had that race on archives someplace but i remember it like it was yesterday. That debut was the kind that just make you feel like you could be watching a very serious potential star.
I'm usually the guy bashing horses at age two after big debuts because they usually fall into one of twoi categories, horses who close late running down fast fractions who really don't wanna stretch out but have given the false impression that they do because they "closed" into a :26 last quarter(which isn't really a close so much as it is the horse in front of them stopped) or horses who go in 21 and change and 44 and change. I mean those kind NEVER stretch out and I mean NEVER. Simply because horses that fast never do. But this debut was didnt fall into either category. Though he was back in the field the fractions were hot enough to mean that hes got enough speed to stay close(and will be closer the longer they go) yet the way he powered home while switching leads very late show me that he WILL stretch. Watch where he switches leads, two strides after that he was just gone. The final 3'16ths went in 17:3 and since he closed he got right around 17 flat, or a shade underneath which meant his kick home was INCREDIBLE and since the final time itself was so fast it makes that last 3/16th's just astonishing. I didn't see a debut like that last year by anyone, heck I don't know when the last time was that i saw a debut like that.

[Gander]

What a pointless thread this has become. Pletcher has 4 great 2 year olds and Oracle ooohed and awwed about them, so what? I didnt see any of them run but I take his word that they are very good and probably will dominate the summer's 2 year old season.

What the hell does winning the 2007 KY Derby have to do with anything? Who cares? Its June 2006.

And why does Pletcher having amazing 2 year olds come as a surprise to anyone? People been living in caves for the last 5 years? He does this every summer. The guy trainds a million horses, some of which he personally has not even seen. Of course hes going to have the stock, everybody wants him to train their horses.

Originally Posted by Gander

What a pointless thread this has become. Pletcher has 4 great 2 year olds and Oracle ooohed and awwed about them, so what? I didnt see any of them run but I take his word that they are very good and probably will dominate the summer's 2 year old season.

What the hell does winning the 2007 KY Derby have to do with anything? Who cares? Its June 2006.

And why does Pletcher having amazing 2 year olds come as a surprise to anyone? People been living in caves for the last 5 years? He does this every summer. The guy trainds a million horses, some of which he personally has not even seen. Of course hes going to have the stock, everybody wants him to train their horses.

Tim hes never had two year old stars like these. Name the best two yeard old he ever had? Hes never won a two year old championship and hes never won the BC juvenile in either division. He always has runners yes, but its more like a lot of very good ones, not horses like these who look downright scary. I don't ooh and ahh over much Tim. I'm ususally real conservative about who I ooh and ahh over. But my eye is pretty good. Maybe you don't remember last year but I know several others here do(over on the old site we used to post on) that i was the first guy to start raving about Barbaro after his debut at Delaware because I bet him and saw the race. I'd say that was a pretty good ooh and ahh. It takes a lot to make me ooh and ahhh, and that horse is something really special.

Keep in mind that Darley has about 40 2YOs that they are close to unveiling in New York with trainers like McLaughlin, Harty, Bin Suroor and Albertrani.....You would have to guess that the average worth of each one of their babies is several hundred thousand....watch out!

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Keep in mind that Darley has about 40 2YOs that they are close to unveiling in New York with trainers like McLaughlin, Harty, Bin Suroor and Albertrani.....You would have to guess that the average worth of each one of their babies is several hundred thousand....watch out!

You and the Arabs.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Tim hes never had two year old stars like these. Name the best two yeard old he ever had? Hes never won a two year old championship and hes never won the BC juvenile in either division. He always has runners yes, but its more like a lot of very good ones, not horses like these who look downright scary. I don't ooh and ahh over much Tim. I'm ususally real conservative about who I ooh and ahh over. But my eye is pretty good. Maybe you don't remember last year but I know several others here do(over on the old site we used to post on) that i was the first guy to start raving about Barbaro after his debut at Delaware because I bet him and saw the race. I'd say that was a pretty good ooh and ahh. It takes a lot to make me ooh and ahhh, and that horse is something really special.

Oracle, I remember you dismissing Barbaro because he ran on turf and his dirt race was on a muddy surface. I dont remember you ever oohhhing and awwing this horse in the spring. But I do remember you mentioning him when he broke his maiden.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

mike and i were the first on the barbero train on the other board...ive liked him and played him in every future pool and basicly said he was the derby winner after the fla derby..

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by Gander

What a pointless thread this has become. Pletcher has 4 great 2 year olds and Oracle ooohed and awwed about them, so what? I didnt see any of them run but I take his word that they are very good and probably will dominate the summer's 2 year old season.

What the hell does winning the 2007 KY Derby have to do with anything? Who cares? Its June 2006.

And why does Pletcher having amazing 2 year olds come as a surprise to anyone? People been living in caves for the last 5 years? He does this every summer. The guy trainds a million horses, some of which he personally has not even seen. Of course hes going to have the stock, everybody wants him to train their horses.

Got to agree with this post. Pletcher always has good 2yr olds and one or two will make it to the derby. So what. For all we know next years derby winner could still be on a farm somewhere.

[Gander]

Nothing wrong with oooing and awwing Oracle, I applaud your enthusiasm. I know your eye is good. You always had an eye on Bubbles and Piggy. LOL!

Originally Posted by Gander

Nothing wrong with oooing and awwing Oracle, I applaud your enthusiasm. I know your eye is good. You always had an eye on Bubbles and Piggy. LOL!

LOL!!! Guy offered me 100 bucks to pick up bubbles aka "the wrecking ball" and I declined. Ah good ole piggy Peggy!! Is she still married? That was one crazy chick.

[Gander]

Bubbles! I remember going to your frat party my first week on campus and seeing her hanging around waiting for her next Mr. Right to sweep her off her feet! Gosh I miss those days, life was so easy. Had absolutely no worries in the world.

lol pedigrees are not the answer, lol. ability is

[Betsy]

I don't think anyone is meaning to throw cold water on your enthusiasm, Oracle, but there are plenty of well-bred (better bred than this one, though he's well-bred himself, obviously) babies that haven't even begun serious training yet. As for Todd's other 2 year olds, again - they look like the typical, precocious colts that we all get excited about (and understandably so - I love 2 year olds; they're so promising and it's fun when you latch onto one) early on. So far, Out of Gwedda and Scat Daddy are fast, but we've seen these types before - they end up fading once the distances lengthen and the blue-bloods start showing up. Take my comments with a grain of salt, though - I just have a problem, period, giving any horse any race (this is nothing personal against Circular Quay) or over-hyping them off of a few starts.

Todd actually also has a very nice 2 year old filly named Rags To Riches; she's a 1/2 to Jazil and ran a sneaky good fourth on Belmont Day at Churchill Downs (after a slow start and wide trip). She's one who will certainly love longer distances..........It does seem like every spring we say that Pletcher will dominate the baby races and he does......the early ones. Come the longer, bigger Fall races, others have passed his babies by.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I don't think anyone is meaning to throw cold water on your enthusiasm, Oracle, but there are plenty of well-bred (better bred than this one, though he's well-bred himself, obviously) babies that haven't even begun serious training yet. As for Todd's other 2 year olds, again - they look like the typical, precocious colts that we all get excited about (and understandably so - I love 2 year olds; they're so promising and it's fun when you latch onto one) early on. So far, Out of Gwedda and Scat Daddy are fast, but we've seen these types before - they end up fading once the distances lengthen and the blue-bloods start showing up. Take my comments with a grain of salt, though - I just have a problem, period, giving any horse any race (this is nothing personal against Circular Quay) or over-hyping them off of a few starts.

Todd actually also has a very nice 2 year old filly named Rags To Riches; she's a 1/2 to Jazil and ran a sneaky good fourth on Belmont Day at Churchill Downs (after a slow start and wide trip). She's one who will certainly love longer distances..........It does seem like every spring we say that Pletcher will dominate the baby races and he does......the early ones. Come the longer, bigger Fall races, others have passed his babies by.

Why is everyone so hung up on breeding?

Once they hit the track it means very little. Was everyone drueling over Afleet Alex's breeding in his 2yo year, no, but he worked out pretty well. I guess what I am trying to say is this whole breeding thing, makes me a little crazy, because it's not like at the 1/8th pole they stop the race and say "well I am by so and so, so I should win." I don't get why about this time of year, everyone checks the breeding of what some of these trainers are holding and deems them Triple Crown Prospects, that may be, but let's get them on the track. That is 10 times more insane than what Oracle is saying, at least this horse showed he could win. I don't care if CQ was by a $5k Claimer, when I finally got home and watched the race last night, I thought it was impressive, I liked the way he was going at the end.

Originally Posted by Betsy

I don't think anyone is meaning to throw cold water on your enthusiasm, Oracle, but there are plenty of well-bred (better bred than this one, though he's well-bred himself, obviously) babies that haven't even begun serious training yet. As for Todd's other 2 year olds, again - they look like the typical, precocious colts that we all get excited about (and understandably so - I love 2 year olds; they're so promising and it's fun when you latch onto one) early on. So far, Out of Gwedda and Scat Daddy are fast, but we've seen these types before - they end up fading once the distances lengthen and the blue-bloods start showing up. Take my comments with a grain of salt, though - I just have a problem, period, giving any horse any race (this is nothing personal against Circular Quay) or over-hyping them off of a few starts.

Todd actually also has a very nice 2 year old filly named Rags To Riches; she's a 1/2 to Jazil and ran a sneaky good fourth on Belmont Day at Churchill Downs (after a slow start and wide trip). She's one who will certainly love longer distances..........It does seem like every spring we say that Pletcher will dominate the baby races and he does......the early ones. Come the longer, bigger Fall races, others have passed his babies by.

Betsy its posts tlike these that cause any knowledgable person to scoff at pedigree nuts like yourself.
You still think those :better bred" horses wanna tangle with CQ?