Trainers and drugs

[wac]

This is a tough topic i am surprised by pletcher getting in trouble as i didnt think he would do something like that. But oh well, has Barclay Tagg ever gotten in trouble? i really like him and if i ever got a horse that i thought was pretty good that is the guy that i would want training it. you guys are right though if everyone is doing it and some guys are playing by the rules not very fair.

[The Bid]

The only guys who play fair are the guys who are too broke or cheap to hire aggressive vets.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Its just a matter of how much money they have to spend on the stuff that they know won't show up, in the test. Its basically the "clear" but for horses insted of Barry Bonds.

[avance2000]

Originally Posted by wac

i am surprised by pletcher getting in trouble as i didnt think he would do something like that.

are you being sarcastic here? the guy learned under one of the biggest drug-using cheaters in the history of the sport.
he had to pick up some good pointers.

Originally Posted by avance2000

are you being sarcastic here? the guy learned under one of the biggest drug-using cheaters in the history of the sport.
he had to pick up some good pointers.

Then why are so many of D Waynes horses great sires, and why have some of his filles and mares been good producers?
I have noticed certain unaccused "great trainers" can't get a sire to save their lives. Anyone besides me ever conclude thats because perhaps their horses performances were artificial?

I think the solution to the drug problem is simple. If a trainer gets caught "juicing" a horse then it is a lifetime suspension. I would say that all drugs need to be illegal. I know you can make an arguement for a couple of them, but to me it is a ZERO drug policy. If you do want to give your horse something then you better make sure to have the horse tested (with your own money) to make sure the drug is out of the horse's system.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I think the solution to the drug problem is simple. If a trainer gets caught "juicing" a horse then it is a lifetime suspension. I would say that all drugs need to be illegal. I know you can make an arguement for a couple of them, but to me it is a ZERO drug policy. If you do want to give your horse something then you better make sure to have the horse tested (with your own money) to make sure the drug is out of the horse's system.

I'll go even further. I think if a horse gets a positive for even a cough drop, the trainer and horse is sentenced to death by firing squad. ZERO TOLERANCE.
Now if their assistant takes over their stable and they have a horse come up with a positive the horse and assistant, along with the original trainers immediate family, are sentenced to death by being thrown out of a plane over the everglades. That way if one of them survives a critter will be sure to finish them off.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I'll go even further. I think if a horse gets a positive for even a cough drop, the trainer and horse is sentenced to death by firing squad. ZERO TOLERANCE.
Now if their assistant takes over their stable and they have a horse come up with a positive the horse and assistant, along with the original trainers immediate family, are sentenced to death by being thrown out of a plane over the everglades. That way if one of them survives a critter will be sure to finish them off.

Thats a little too lenient for me.
I propose a real scare. When Oleg Penkovksy, the GRU colonel of the USSR who was caught spying for the US and saved us in the Cuban Missile Crisis, was convicted of spying, they bound him to a board with piano wire and cremated him alive. Not burned, cremated him ALIVE!!!
I'd say that would cut down on violations.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Thats a little too lenient for me.
I propose a real scare. When Oleg Penkovksy, the GRU colonel of the USSR who was caught spying for the US and saved us in the Cuban Missile Crisis, was convicted of spying, they bound him to a board with piano wire and cremated him alive. Not burned, cremated him ALIVE!!!
I'd say that would cut down on violations.

Now I didnt know that little story. Yeah, that is pretty bad right there.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Thats a little too lenient for me.
I propose a real scare. When Oleg Penkovksy, the GRU colonel of the USSR who was caught spying for the US and saved us in the Cuban Missile Crisis, was convicted of spying, they bound him to a board with piano wire and cremated him alive. Not burned, cremated him ALIVE!!!
I'd say that would cut down on violations.

Hey we could label these cheaters terrorists and send them overseas for some good old fashioned torture before their death sentence. They could enjoy various forms of torture like a caning or how about a scoldering coat hanger shoved up their pisshole?

It's time for the $1 exacta boxers to get revenge!!!!

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I am against "juicing" as much as the next guy, but this is kind of crazy. Lifetime suspension? Stuff happens, and it's not always the trainers fault that horses get whatever they get. I'm not defending anyone, or making excuses, but a lifetime ban seems kind of harsh.

Why do you think it is a little harsh? I know stuff happens as well. But, someone has to take the responsibility. To me, the trainer is the one that needs to be held accountable. You could also have something in place for big operations where the assistant trainer is running the barn while the main trainer is at the main stable. For example, Pletcher could have a string in Cali but he would be in New York. The trainer over seeing the operation in Cali would be responsible for any positive tests. The training outfit has to say that they horses are running under the assistants name on behalf of Pletcher. There is always policy that can be well written to address all situations.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Do you honestly want me to answer why that is harsh? Let me ask you, and I am really not trying to start an arguement here, but you said you own horses. Do they run with any drugs?
Like I said, I am totally against illegal drugs, and I am not really knowledgable on all of the different legal and illegal. But I know that there are drugs out there that truly do help horses, so to ban all would be kind of nuts. It'd be like banning all medicine because people are abusing codeine. Mistakes happen, and a lifetime ban seems harsh. Now if you are a multiple offender fine, but what if someone who has a squeeky clean record makes a mistake. Seems harsh to ban someone for life. No one is perfect.

There is a huge difference between an overage of a legal drug that was withdrawn in time according to the vet's instructions and lingered, and a guy stepping into a stall and "mainlining" a horse with a hopper on race day.
EPO also doesnt "accidentally" make its way into a horses system. Its not like EPO is like Clen or BUte which can be given quite legally and sometimes lingers.
People who talk about lifetime bans on stuff like this usually have no idea what they are talking about.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Do you honestly want me to answer why that is harsh? Let me ask you, and I am really not trying to start an arguement here, but you said you own horses. Do they run with any drugs?
Like I said, I am totally against illegal drugs, and I am not really knowledgable on all of the different legal and illegal. But I know that there are drugs out there that truly do help horses, so to ban all would be kind of nuts. It'd be like banning all medicine because people are abusing codeine. Mistakes happen, and a lifetime ban seems harsh. Now if you are a multiple offender fine, but what if someone who has a squeeky clean record makes a mistake. Seems harsh to ban someone for life. No one is perfect.

The horses that only a percentage in do not run on drugs. The trainer doesnt even give the horse any type of pain medication--maybe that is why they arent winning. The ownership group got together (and the trainer is also in the group) and we decided that no drugs should be administered. Now, if the trainer needs to give the horse something then it is written that the horse must wait 32 days after the medicine was administered before the horse can be entered into a race. One of our horses got loose and slif across the pavement at the track. She cut herself up pretty good. The vet gave her some meds for the pain and to fight off any type of infection. The horse wasnt entered in a race until 48 days passed since the last dose was given. I feel that mistakes can be prevented by taking the necessary pre-cautions. Pre-race testing is a precaution that can be used.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So no Lasix, bute, etc? SOunds good in theory, and again I am not as knowlegdable as a lot of people on here about this stuff, but what if the horse needs something like Lasix? I recently read an article about Belgravia, Patrick Biancone's very nice 2 year old. He doesn't run on Lasix, like a lot of Biancone's, and when asked about it biancone said he doesn't need it, so why give it to him?

http://www.drf.com/news/article/81198.html

I think in Europe horses do not run on lasix or bute. I could be wrong. If someone knows for sure, please let me know.