Sat 6/13 Play

[jms62]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

As Andy Serling said on the live feed, the only way to change these lack-of-pace games is to force the trainers to file game plans with the stewards before the races are run. If the jockey is not able to execute, they are both called on the carpet in front of the stewards (just like the Hong Kong system) where fines and suspensions are doled out double fisted. In other words, the horses show up ready and are expected to perform.

While the Poker Stakes was one example, look at the internal fractions from today's fourth race on the turf at 1 1/16 miles : 26:2, 24:0, 23:1, 23:1 ... exactly how is a 1 1/16m race effectivelt reduced to a 4 1/2 furlong Charlestown Special?

This is nothing against you Scott but filing a game plan is an absurd idea. Maybe this is an opportunity for us as horseplayers to compile statistcs on jockeys and how they perform on speed horses in these situations.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by jms62

This is nothing against you Scott but filing a game plan is an absurd idea. Maybe this is an opportunity for us as horseplayers to compile statistcs on jockeys and how they perform on speed horses in these situations.

This would make sense if it weren't a disease that permeated the entire jocks' room. Luis Saez, for example, is usually a relatively aggressive rider and he's the one who dragged Heart to Heart off the lead and handed the race to King Kreesa. It doesn't matter who it is, they all do it and it makes NY turf races borderline unbettable.

[ateamstupid]

Churchill 1
$.50 PK4 5/1,2,3,4,7,8/2,3,4,5,6,9/1,3,9
$1 PK4 5/1,2,7/3,6/3
$60

[jms62]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This would make sense if it weren't a disease that permeated the entire jocks' room. Luis Saez, for example, is usually a relatively aggressive rider and he's the one who dragged Heart to Heart off the lead and handed the race to King Kreesa. It doesn't matter who it is, they all do it and it makes NY turf races borderline unbettable.

But Joey how often do we see an Ortiz brother or Rosario as the ones to steal in these situations. With all the info available these days jocks see the same thing as us. They see all the speed and make a decision that there is no way they can win in a pace battle and elect to hold back while one jock steals.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by jms62

But Joey how often do we see an Ortiz brother or Rosario as the ones to steal in these situations. With all the info available these days jocks see the same thing as us. They see all the speed and make a decision that there is no way they can win in a pace battle and elect to hold back while one jock steals.

There is also no way you can win when you take a confirmed speed horse out of their game. Where did Heart to Heart end up today? You're telling me Saez wouldn't have had a better chance if he just let his horse run? The thing stalked a freaking :44 and change half last time!

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

There is also no way you can win when you take a confirmed speed horse out of their game. Where did Heart to Heart end up today? You're telling me Saez wouldn't have had a better chance if he just let his horse run? The thing stalked a freaking :44 and change half last time!

This is exactly the point - if the intention was to rate the horse in order to teach some new lessons that might be applicable for longer distances, wouldn't you have wanted to know that as a handicapper. I would have said to myself, this horse is not pressing a 44:4-45:3 half mile time so what implications does that have on my betting strategy.

The problem is that you can no longer decide who is leaving and who is stalking - the paces seem random. Take for example Cornelio Velasquez's win on Knuckle Curve in the 7th race. Ask yourself this question : Cornelio, normally a very conservative rider, breaks with this horse and pushes him to the lead. I would have liked to know that the strategy was to put this one on the lead since my bets on both Tiz the Moment and Fitzgerald would have been different.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by jms62

This is nothing against you Scott but filing a game plan is an absurd idea. Maybe this is an opportunity for us as horseplayers to compile statistcs on jockeys and how they perform on speed horses in these situations.

No offense taken - thanks for the views. Both JRC (Japan) and Hong Kong DEMAND plans filed from the trainer prior to their races covering issues like intention to go for the lead, midpack, or close, whether the race is a warm-up for a later event, or any infirmaties that the horse has experienced. Moreso, both the JRC and HKJC require the horse's weight to be reported on a race-by-race basis. Both of these pieces of information would be huge benefits to the US-based past performance analysis.