A new all time low for partisan politics

[Rupert Pupkin]

Iranian Dissidents Criticize Obama’s Nuclear Diplomacy:

http://freebeacon.com/issues/iranian...ear-diplomacy/

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Iranian Dissidents Criticize Obama’s Nuclear Diplomacy:

http://freebeacon.com/issues/iranian...ear-diplomacy/

Stop the presses an Iranian dissident is critical of Iranian policy. To borrow a line from a song "The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"

[Danzig]

of course the dissidents don't want a deal. brokering a deal means a rollback of sanctions-something i'm sure the dissidents hoped would help break the current regime.

[jms62]

Our government is no longer for the people and it should be a concern. The below bill was sponsored by BOTH Gangs so it is not a partisan issue. The whole ****ing process is out of control and they are too arrogant to even try and conceal it anymore.

http://thehill.com/regulation/235970...-chemical-bill

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

Our government is no longer for the people and it should be a concern. The below bill was sponsored by BOTH Gangs so it is not a partisan issue. The whole ****ing process is out of control and they are too arrogant to even try and conceal it anymore.

http://thehill.com/regulation/235970...-chemical-bill

it's becoming a more common practice.
health lobbyists, banks and financial institutions, koch industries, oil companies.....
take note of the most recent budget bill, with tucked in amendments to remove some regulations on banks regarding trades. and of course the additional language that raised the amount of money that can be 'donated' to a campaign by tenfold.
it's not even a secret anymore, that companies that are supposedly to be regulated are the ones actually writing the regs.
the money has got to stop flowing from large corporations to 'our' politicians.
i don't even know that jack abramoff would be arrested today. congress has been sold to the highest bidders.
where does that leave all of us, who can't afford to hire lobbyists?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's becoming a more common practice.
health lobbyists, banks and financial institutions, koch industries, oil companies.....
take note of the most recent budget bill, with tucked in amendments to remove some regulations on banks regarding trades. and of course the additional language that raised the amount of money that can be 'donated' to a campaign by tenfold.
it's not even a secret anymore, that companies that are supposedly to be regulated are the ones actually writing the regs.
the money has got to stop flowing from large corporations to 'our' politicians.
i don't even know that jack abramoff would be arrested today. congress has been sold to the highest bidders.
where does that leave all of us, who can't afford to hire lobbyists?

Unfortunately those that can "Stop" this are the one's that are profiting from it.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

of course the dissidents don't want a deal. brokering a deal means a rollback of sanctions-something i'm sure the dissidents hoped would help break the current regime.

The deal is only one piece of it. The main point is that the White House has basically ignored the issues of human rights and democracy in Iran. Obama does everything he can to overthrow regimes that are our allies such as Egypt and Libya, yet with the regime in Iran (who is our enemy), Obama does the opposite. He tries to help them. That's a great idea to get rid of regimes who are our allies but try to keep regimes in power who are our enemy. Welcome to the Obama school of foreign policy.

I realize that there are a lot of complexities when it comes to foreign policy. Sometimes you may have to throw the enemy a bone. I understand that, but overall I think Obama's foreign policy has been a disaster.

You can criticize Bush for Iraq, but at least in that case we were getting rid of an enemy and going to have it replaced with a friend. At least there was some upside there. In other words, even if invading Iraq was a bad idea, it was the greatest idea in the world compared to trying overthrow the regimes in Libya and Egypt.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The deal is only one piece of it. The main point is that the White House has basically ignored the issues of human rights and democracy in Iran. Obama does everything he can to overthrow regimes that are our allies such as Egypt and Libya, yet with the regime in Iran (who is our enemy), Obama does the opposite. He tries to help them. That's a great idea to get rid of regimes who are our allies but try to keep regimes in power who are our enemy. Welcome to the Obama school of foreign policy.

I realize that there are a lot of complexities when it comes to foreign policy. Sometimes you may have to throw the enemy a bone. I understand that, but overall I think Obama's foreign policy has been a disaster.

You can criticize Bush for Iraq, but at least in that case we were getting rid of an enemy and going to have it replaced with a friend. At least there was some upside there. In other words, even if invading Iraq was a bad idea, it was the greatest idea in the world compared to trying overthrow the regimes in Libya and Egypt.

BULLSCHIT!...How were they an enemy and a threat to us?..Iraq couldn't even hit Israel with their scud missiles in the first Gulf War..all the reasons that rogue regime -Bush/Cheney and co,-used to invade were bogus..
except he gassed his own people and who here or anywhere gave a schit..Dumya should have read his Dad's book on why he didn't pursue Saddam to Baghdad..and invading Iraq wasn't just a bad idea
it was a disaster...still is!

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by bigrun

BULLSCHIT!...How were they an enemy and a threat to us?..Iraq couldn't even hit Israel with their scud missiles in the first Gulf War..all the reasons that rogue regime -Bush/Cheney and co,-used to invade were bogus..
except he gassed his own people and who here or anywhere gave a schit..Dumya should have read his Dad's book on why he didn't pursue Saddam to Baghdad..and invading Iraq wasn't just a bad idea
it was a disaster...still is!

Iraq was not our enemy? If you say so. At least we had something to gain by getting rid of Saddam and getting a regime in there that was friendly to us. What did we have to gain by helping to oust Mubarrak and Kaddafi, who were our allies? Helping to oust Mubarrak was a disaster. The Muslim Brotherhood took over. We are just lucky that the Egyptian military ousted the Muslim Brotherhood. Libya has turned out to be a complete disaster. How can you criticize Bush over Iraq and not slam Obama over Libya? As I said before, it is bad enough to overthrow an enemy, but why would you want to overthrow an ally?

By the way, with regard to Iraq, everyone seems to have a very short memory. We had every right to invade Iraq. If you remember, part of the agreement to the cease-fire in the Persian Gulf war were that Saddam agreed to a number of conditions. We signed a cease-fire and agreed not to invade Bagdhad as long as Saddam honored the conditions of the cease-fire. The conditions were things like open inspections, honoring the no-fly zone, not killing the Kurds, etc. Sadaam violated practically every part of the agreement. The cease-fire becomes null and void at that point and we have the right to invade. Saddam was the one who started the whole thing with his invasion of Kuwait. Just because we had the right to invade, it doesn't mean it was necessarily the right choice. But all this nonsense about Bush/Cheney being a rogue regime is absurd considering that Saddam violated practically every term of the cease-fire.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Iraq was not our enemy? If you say so. At least we had something to gain by getting rid of Saddam and getting a regime in there that was friendly to us.

Yeah right, how did that work out

What did we have to gain by helping to oust Mubarrak and Kaddafi, who were our allies? Helping to oust Mubarrak was a disaster. The Muslim Brotherhood took over. We are just lucky that the Egyptian military ousted the Muslim Brotherhood. Libya has turned out to be a complete disaster. How can you criticize Bush over Iraq and not slam Obama over Libya? As I said before, it is bad enough to overthrow an enemy, but why would you want to overthrow an ally?

I might ask you same thing.

United States support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq War, against post-revolutionary Iran, included several billion dollars' worth of economic aid, the sale of dual-use technology, non-U.S. origin weaponry, military intelligence, Special Operations training, and direct involvement in warfare against Iran.[3][4]

Support from the U.S. for Iraq was not a secret and was frequently discussed in open session of the Senate and House of Representatives. On June 9, 1992, Ted Koppel reported on ABC's Nightline that the "Reagan/Bush administrations permitted—and frequently encouraged—the flow of money, agricultural credits, dual-use technology, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq.

By the way, with regard to Iraq, everyone seems to have a very short memory. We had every right to invade Iraq. If you remember, part of the agreement to the cease-fire in the Persian Gulf war were that Saddam agreed to a number of conditions. We signed a cease-fire and agreed not to invade Bagdhad as long as Saddam honored the conditions of the cease-fire. The conditions were things like open inspections, honoring the no-fly zone, not killing the Kurds, etc. Sadaam violated practically every part of the agreement. The cease-fire becomes null and void at that point and we have the right to invade. Saddam was the one who started the whole thing with his invasion of Kuwait. Just because we had the right to invade, it doesn't mean it was necessarily the right choice. But all this nonsense about Bush/Cheney being a rogue regime is absurd considering that Saddam violated practically every term of the cease-fire.

Really, we had the right to invade? over violation of conditions?...was there any overt military actions against us? I missed that one..I said before Dumya should have read his Dad's book..

President George H.W. Bush wrote a memoir entitled "A World Transformed", published in 1998. (It was written with Brent Scowcroft.) The following is an excerpt on why he did not invade Iraq in 1991:

"Trying to eliminate Saddam...would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible.... We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq.... there was no viable "exit strategy" we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."
A concise argument against the invasion. Didn't Junior bother to read his father's book?


And those incalculable human and political costs..Remember the U.S. led coalition?..95% U.S. and 5% others!

Coalition Military Fatalities By Year

Year US UK Other Total

2001 12 0 0 12
2002 49 3 18 70
2003 48 0 10 58
2004 52 1 7 60
2005 99 1 31 131
2006 98 39 54 191
2007 117 42 73 232
2008 155 51 89 295
2009 317 108 96 521
2010 499 103 109 711
2011 418 46 102 566
2012 310 44 48 402
2013 127 9 25 161
2014 55 6 14 75
2015 0 0 1 1
Total 2356 453 677 3486

http://icasualties.org/OEF/index.aspx

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmcqu...-invaded-iraq/

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The deal is only one piece of it. The main point is that the White House has basically ignored the issues of human rights and democracy in Iran. Obama does everything he can to overthrow regimes that are our allies such as Egypt and Libya, yet with the regime in Iran (who is our enemy), Obama does the opposite. He tries to help them. That's a great idea to get rid of regimes who are our allies but try to keep regimes in power who are our enemy. Welcome to the Obama school of foreign policy.

I realize that there are a lot of complexities when it comes to foreign policy. Sometimes you may have to throw the enemy a bone. I understand that, but overall I think Obama's foreign policy has been a disaster.

You can criticize Bush for Iraq, but at least in that case we were getting rid of an enemy and going to have it replaced with a friend. At least there was some upside there. In other words, even if invading Iraq was a bad idea, it was the greatest idea in the world compared to trying overthrow the regimes in Libya and Egypt.

[Pants II]

This project is worth far more than the measly 25 billion required to build it.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Afric...s/%28page%29/2

That precious resource is what future generations will kill for.

Why else would one of the dynasty families buy land and mineral rights in northern Paraguay?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

Coming from you (the resident brain surgeon), I take that as a compliment.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Coming from you (the resident brain surgeon), I take that as a compliment.

Ah, reducing to the personal already? Tsk tsk

Our foreign policy has been pretty much pathetic since ww2. And we've been in an almost constant state of war since then as well. To call out Obama while defending bush....well, that's not being consistent. Bush was awful, Obama is awful. Our foreign policy is a shambles.
As for 'good guys' and human rights, etc.....I would direct your attention to our most favored nation in trade.
Foreign policy isn't based on good guys vs bad.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Coming from you (the resident brain surgeon), I take that as a compliment.

With all due respect sir you thought the solution to deer overpopulation was a Deer relocation program.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by jms62

Stop the presses an Iranian dissident is critical of Iranian policy. To borrow a line from a song "The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand"

Steely Dan fan?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Steely Dan fan?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by jms62

Me too!