Breeding Question

What is a good % for a live foal for a horse? For example, Tiznow has a 68% live foal rate. Is this good or bad? On the flip side, Storm Cat has a 81% live foal rate.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

What is a good % for a live foal for a horse? For example, Tiznow has a 68% live foal rate. Is this good or bad? On the flip side, Storm Cat has a 81% live foal rate.

are you talking about IN FOAL or LIVE FOAL...cause they are two very different things...live foal depends on the mare much more than the stud...in foal also could be blamed on the mare, BUT depends on his swimmers to get the job done.

[Thoroughbred Fan]

Obviously there is a large number of factors which go into this statistic. Some of them include: quality of breeding/boarding farm care, mare's reproductive current health, mare's reproductive history, mare's age, luck, etc...

With the better stallions, the farm can be a little bit more selective about the mares their stallion covers. For instance, I would expect Kingmambo to have a rather high rate of live foal from upcoming crops becasue he has the neck issues and can't cover as many mares. The farm will make sure each cover has the highest possibility of producing a live foal.

Conversely, many regional stallion might be bred to mares that just aren't reproductively healthy or might be older and need more intensive care, which unfortunately they don't get.

Bottom line, is I'm not real sure you can compare apples and oranges. Obviously, the higher the percentage the better.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

are you talking about IN FOAL or LIVE FOAL...cause they are two very different things...live foal depends on the mare much more than the stud...in foal also could be blamed on the mare, BUT depends on his swimmers to get the job done.

what I mean is...if you are looking for an indication of a stallions fertility you need the number of mares he gets IN FOAL...
after that it is on her to make sure that he gets a LIVE FOAL...so I'm not sure what you are actually asking.

Live Foals. I know the mare has tons to do with the live foal rate. I was just curious to know what a good an average percentage is. In addition, how likely is a farm going to breed back to the mare that lost the foal. For example, Tiznow covered 76 mares in 2005. 52 prodiced live foals. I wonder how likely the farm will be willing to go back to those 24 mares who didnt produce a foal.

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

Obviously there is a large number of factors which go into this statistic. Some of them include: quality of breeding/boarding farm care, mare's reproductive current health, mare's reproductive history, mare's age, luck, etc...

With the better stallions, the farm can be a little bit more selective about the mares their stallion covers. For instance, I would expect Kingmambo to have a rather high rate of live foal from upcoming crops becasue he has the neck issues and can't cover as many mares. The farm will make sure each cover has the highest possibility of producing a live foal.

Conversely, many regional stallion might be bred to mares that just aren't reproductively healthy or might be older and need more intensive care, which unfortunately they don't get.

Bottom line, is I'm not real sure you can compare apples and oranges. Obviously, the higher the percentage the better.

Makes sense and just an FYI.

Kingmambo covered 37 mares and had 22 produce live foals. A percentage of 59%.

Originally Posted by paisjpq

what I mean is...if you are looking for an indication of a stallions fertility you need the number of mares he gets IN FOAL...
after that it is on her to make sure that he gets a LIVE FOAL...so I'm not sure what you are actually asking.

I understand....its more reflective on the mare than the sire. I just wonder if the farm expects a certain percent to not produce a foal. Most farms only collect when a live foal is produced (correct)? Does a farm expect 80%, 50% or what. They have to plan for this in order to forecast revenue. Or am I completely off base here?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Live Foals. I know the mare has tons to do with the live foal rate. I was just curious to know what a good an average percentage is. In addition, how likely is a farm going to breed back to the mare that lost the foal. For example, Tiznow covered 76 mares in 2005. 52 prodiced live foals. I wonder how likely the farm will be willing to go back to those 24 mares who didnt produce a foal.

it would depend on why she lost the foal...it could be a management issue--fescue toxicity...it could be a mare issue--placentitis...it could be an unknown--fetal diarrhea...could be redbag delivery...dummy foal...there are so many things that can o wrong it would have to be on a case by case i would think.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I understand....its more reflective on the mare than the sire. I just wonder if the farm expects a certain percent to not produce a foal. Most farms only collect when a live foal is produced (correct)? Does a farm expect 80%, 50% or what. They have to plan for this in order to forecast revenue. Or am I completely off base here?

I am not really that familiar with how stallion fees work...but my understanding is that there is no $$ if there is no foal. It's why a mare must show up at the shed with all of her vet work in order and documented...and if she doesn't get in foal on the first couple of covers she has to have more cultures done to determine uterine health etc...

Makes sense. It would be neat to find out what a farm like Three Chimneys expect for Storm Cat. Do they project an 80% live foal rate for him. And then maybe like a 50% live foal rate for Albert The Great. It would be neat to see how all that projection stuff works when it comes to their future earnings. I would assume they almost have to work 1 year in the past.

Makes sense. It would be neat to find out what a farm like Three Chimneys expect for Storm Cat. Do they project an 80% live foal rate for him. And then maybe like a 50% live foal rate for Albert The Great. It would be neat to see how all that projection stuff works when it comes to their future earnings. I would assume they almost have to work 1 year in the past.

[Thoroughbred Fan]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Makes sense and just an FYI.

Kingmambo covered 37 mares and had 22 produce live foals. A percentage of 59%.

That was the season where his neck became an issue. I believe he was booked to about 150 mares for that season and only got to 37 based on his neck. When you book to 150 and people are paying $300k, you tend to be a little less choosy.

From now on, I would expect his rate to be higher from much smaller books. This is also the reason his fee is now private. They will discount for a good pedigree match with proven reproductive health.

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

That was the season where his neck became an issue. I believe he was booked to about 150 mares for that season and only got to 37 based on his neck. When you book to 150 and people are paying $300k, you tend to be a little less choosy.

From now on, I would expect his rate to be higher from much smaller books. This is also the reason his fee is now private. They will discount for a good pedigree match with proven reproductive health.

Makes sense to me--out of curiosity, what is wrong with his neck?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Makes sense to me--out of curiosity, what is wrong with his neck?

I think he had some pretty serious arthritis...

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

I think he had some pretty serious arthritis...

http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleind...e.asp?id=32283
guess it was arthritis and then some.

Thanks for the information.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Makes sense. It would be neat to find out what a farm like Three Chimneys expect for Storm Cat. Do they project an 80% live foal rate for him. And then maybe like a 50% live foal rate for Albert The Great. It would be neat to see how all that projection stuff works when it comes to their future earnings. I would assume they almost have to work 1 year in the past.

Though I'm sure Three Chimneys would love to stand Storm Cat, he is at Overbrook.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Though I'm sure Three Chimneys would love to stand Storm Cat, he is at Overbrook.

Yeah - no kidding. Thank you for catching that for me.