You make the call.. Classic or Mile for Wise Dan?

[PatCummings]

The gelding thing is a huge knock against him for the Classic. If they want to chase the big money, they should do it in the 2013 Dubai World Cup. His synth turn of foot is striking, and think he'd have a massive shot to make 10F there compared to doing it on dirt v. some that are pointing to the Classic.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

The gelding thing is a huge knock against him for the Classic. If they want to chase the big money, they should do it in the 2013 Dubai World Cup. His synth turn of foot is striking, and think he'd have a massive shot to make 10F there compared to doing it on dirt v. some that are pointing to the Classic.

While I agree about the Classic, I'd give him even less shot in Dubai.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

The money will follow.

I'm skeptical about this.

The money didn't follow after Zenyatta retired and her fans were and still are as rabid a fan base as we're going to see. why is this going to be any different?

The people you are trying to target have shown they have little to no interest in gambling on horses. The sport has no problem attracting fans. Its problem is attracting the gambling dollars.

Originally Posted by PatCummings

The gelding thing is a huge knock against him for the Classic. If they want to chase the big money, they should do it in the 2013 Dubai World Cup. His synth turn of foot is striking, and think he'd have a massive shot to make 10F there compared to doing it on dirt v. some that are pointing to the Classic.

The dubai world cup would be interesting. If he wins it, he would have won 3 different grade 1s on 3 different types of surface in 3 different countries. Rare feat for sure.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I'm skeptical about this.

The money didn't follow after Zenyatta retired and her fans were and still are as rabid a fan base as we're going to see. why is this going to be any different?

The people you are trying to target have shown they have little to no interest in gambling on horses. The sport has no problem attracting fans. Its problem is attracting the gambling dollars.

The problem is the amount of people being drawn in by true stars of the game is very small compared to the numbers of people who like to wager money on sporting events.

I do think star horses help build the sport, and some of them become betters, we have seen increasing handle the last two years and maybe a few of them were Zenyatta fan's.

Its just never going to be enough to sustain even a fraction of the numbers the sport needs.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

If I asked the general public who Afleet Alex is the majority of them are going to say "who"

If I asked them who "Wise Dan" is they are going to think he is some kind of football prognosticator.

I do think about 25% or so would say they heard of Zenyatta.

The sport needs to marketed as a gambling venture, run like a gambling venture, its the only way for it to grow.

i just had someone say 'who' when i mentioned secretariat. and she's about my age.
some people don't know any of them.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

The dubai world cup would be interesting. If he wins it, he would have won 3 different grade 1s on 3 different types of surface in 3 different countries. Rare feat for sure.

The Dubai World Cup is not a Grade 1. For that matter, neither is the Woodbine Mile according to US Gradings.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The Dubai World Cup is not a Grade 1. For that matter, neither is the Woodbine Mile according to US Gradings.

I think it is a North American Grading System and not US Gradings.

The Woodbine Mile is a Grade 1.

http://www1.drf.com/displayChart.do?...2012091610.pdf

Mine That Bird was allowed entry in the Kentucky Derby solely for earnings from winning one of the few Open Gr stakes for 2yo's in Canada.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The Dubai World Cup is not a Grade 1. For that matter, neither is the Woodbine Mile according to US Gradings.

Does what we call it even matter? Those are both considered very high class races. If any of our races used wins in a G1 as part of the criteria, the winners would get in I would imagine. As Doug says, the Woodbine Mile is North American G1. Now the Queen's Plate, that is another story.

[Calzone Lord]

I guess the Jockey Club of Canada does have separate rules from us.

The Canadian Graded Stakes Committee evaluates and reviews the Graded Stakes annually and determines whether races should be upgraded, downgraded or remain the same, based on a number of criteria including the performance of the races based on the NARC and BRIS ratings for the previous years. Also, to be eligible for consideration for Graded status in Canada, races must carry the following minimum purses: $250,000 for Grade 1; $150,000 for Grade 2 and $100,000 for Grade 3.

They have just 5 Grade 1's in Canada:

Canadian International, Woodbine Mile, Northern Dancer,
Nearctic Stakes, and the E.P. Taylor Stakes

All five of these races are run at Woodbine and all five on turf. They almost always tend to attract good shippers from the US and Europe.

Even though they are both technically called Gr 1 races, I had assumed the same grading committee handled both US and Canada races.

Like CJ said, even though the Queen's Plate is the most famous race in Canada, it's not a Graded Stake we recognize because it's not open.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Even though they are both technically called Gr 1 races, I had assumed the same grading committee handled both US and Canada races.

I don't think so, but could be wrong.

[Calzone Lord]

Here's the Chart of this years Queen's Plate. The chart has no Grade attached to it because we don't recognize it as a Graded Stakes race.

http://www1.drf.com/drfNCWeeklyHorse...0624&raceNo=10

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Here's the Chart of this years Queen's Plate. The chart has no Grade attached to it because we don't recognize it as a Graded Stakes race.

http://www1.drf.com/drfNCWeeklyHorse...0624&raceNo=10

I did not think any restricted to origin of breeding could be a graded race in the U.S.?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I did not think any restricted to origin of breeding could be a graded race in the U.S.?

Correct, we don't recognize it.

That's why the Sunshine Millions races can never be Graded as well.

The Woodbine Mile (AKA the old Atto Mile) is recognized.

http://www1.drf.com/row/pps/LEROIDESANIMAUX.pdf


The Queen's Plate won't be. It will get an R inside of a box.




As you can see with Victor Cooley's PP's -- the Molson Million doesn't exist anymore -- but it was recognized as a Grade 1 and a lot of good American 3yo's from the 90's like Skip Away, A. P. Indy, Louis Quatorze etc shipped for it.

[Sightseek]

Is there even a horse in training right now that has run 10 triple digit speed figures in a row?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Is there even a horse in training right now that has run 10 triple digit speed figures in a row?

I don't think so.

Amazombie has a 99 or better in his last 11 in a row. So, at least one of them is very close.

Caleb's Posse had 4 in a row of 109 or better. Because he's a deep closer, he would have been a fairly safe bet to do it had he not been injured.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The Dubai World Cup is not a Grade 1. For that matter, neither is the Woodbine Mile according to US Gradings.

Dubai World Cup isnt a Group 1 race?

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

The gelding thing is a huge knock against him for the Classic. If they want to chase the big money, they should do it in the 2013 Dubai World Cup. His synth turn of foot is striking, and think he'd have a massive shot to make 10F there compared to doing it on dirt v. some that are pointing to the Classic.

Who exactly scares you in the Classic if you are Lopresti?

Paul

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Dubai World Cup isnt a Group 1 race?

It's a Group 1 according to the IFHA.

The American Graded Stakes Committee only handles US racing.


I never looked at the IFHA website before today -- They have an International List of Protected Names there.

http://www.ifhaonline.org/resources/NP_2012.pdf

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by pweizer

Who exactly scares you in the Classic if you are Lopresti?

Paul

Dirt...probably the eighth pole.....and definitely the sixteenth pole.

And, oh yeah, most of the field.

Other than that, very little.