Ok I Have Had Enough

[avance2000]

Originally Posted by BellamyRd.

and owned by the sand monkeys

this is not right. i am a long-time opponent of bernardini fans and the horse's ownership. but terms like that are just plain racist and have no place on this board. if you want to be a racist....fine there are plenty of racist websites around. go join one.
this is a horse racing board.....where everyone who loves horse racing should feel welcome. ignorant and pejorative terms like "sand monkey" do not belong here.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Nope, that's not correct either. There were numerous threads, before the fact, where several people tried to point out that Invasor was a serious threat to Bernardini. No matter what was said, getting through to some of the Bernardini people was futile. They acted like they knew it all. To use your words, "they tried to sound like geniuses".

Here is an example.

http://derbytrail.com/forums/showthr...1037#post81037

As usual, you miss the point. All I said was that I didn't see Zeigler stating before the race that Bernardini shouldn't be even money and anyone who singles him is crazy, as she was saying afterwards.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

As usual, you miss the point. All I said was that I didn't see Zeigler stating before the race that Bernardini shouldn't be even money and anyone who singles him is crazy, as she was saying afterwards.

Missed the point? Hardly.

Over and over you were quick to characterize someone with the label "postrace genius", without even considering what may have been said pre-race. examples;
"I just can't stand when people try to sound like geniuses after the fact" and
"The point is it's much easier to ridicule those who bet Bernardini to even money and singled him after he loses" and "Ah yes, another postrace genius."

I was trying to point out to you that much was said pre-race, and that you might want to consider that before jumping to more conclusions.

[Pointg5]

Sounds like the Bernardini fans can dish it, but not take it...

Do you know how many threads we would see if he won that would say how stupid the doubters were...

There were quotes like these:

He's here, the horse we have been all waiting for and some don't appreciate him...

He's going to get his Coronation...

and multiple quotes of arrogance of how he easily would win the BCC...

He didn't and now the people who questioned him are right, that's okay, this game changes we could all be wrong about the next thing, but if we are arrogant enough to say some of the things said about Bernardini, we should get some ribbing as well...I think he's a very good horse, not great or one of the greats, but very good and I think I overvalued him, I gave him about a 75%-80% chance of winning and that was probably too high, but it more than worked out for me...

Get over it and say you were wrong, dead wrong, in fact you couldn't have been more wrong, but I doubt we'll see it...

And congrats to Arljim, he's one that I remember for a long time saying how good Invasior was....

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Sounds like the Bernardini fans can dish it, but not take it...

Do you know how many threads we would see if he won that would say how stupid the doubters were...

There were quotes like these:

He's here, the horse we have been all waiting for and some don't appreciate him...

He's going to get his Coronation...

and multiple quotes of arrogance of how he easily would win the BCC...

He didn't and now the people who questioned him are right, that's okay, this game changes we could all be wrong about the next thing, but if we are arrogant enough to say some of the things said about Bernardini, we should get some ribbing as well...I think he's a very good horse, not great or one of the greats, but very good and I think I overvalued him, I gave him about a 75%-80% chance of winning and that was probably too high, but it more than worked out for me...

Get over it and say you were wrong, dead wrong, in fact you couldn't have been more wrong, but I doubt we'll see it...

And congrats to Arljim, he's one that I remember for a long time saying how good Invasior was....

Your first point is well taken and absolutely the truth.
Ateam dished it out just fine after Ghostzapper destroyed his rivals. He deserved to. Ateam was certain no distance would stop him long before he even went two turns. Thats cool, you call the shot you get to talk smack.
But looks like he can't take it so well, and a few others either. Pathetic that they can talk smack for 3 or 4 months and post pictures, whatever, and then act indignant when he loses.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

And congrats to Arljim, he's one that I remember for a long time saying how good Invasior was....

Well thanks but I wasn't the only one. There were several others that thought that the enormous accolades about Bernardini being the best we've seen in ages were slightly premature. I never disliked the horse and feel that he is immensely talented. My main point was that Invasor was being overlooked and under-rated.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Well thanks but I wasn't the only one. There were several others that thought that the enormous accolades about Bernardini being the best we've seen in ages were slightly premature. I never disliked the horse and feel that he is immensely talented. My main point was that Invasor was being overlooked and under-rated.

Agree with everything you said here Jim.
A certain clique acted as if anyone who didn't agree that Bernadini was the best horse since Secretariat was a complete idiot and told those folks so.
I respect smack talking, and lots is in good fun. But when you talk the smack and the horse gets beat you have to offer props, thats why we post here and wage these mini battles. It ruins the fun when one side who talked the smack won't offer props to the others afterwards even when they were dead wrong.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Agree with everything you said here Jim.
A certain clique acted as if anyone who didn't agree that Bernadini was the best horse since Secretariat was a complete idiot and told those folks so.
I respect smack talking, and lots is in good fun. But when you talk the smack and the horse gets beat you have to offer props, thats why we post here and wage these mini battles. It ruins the fun when one side who talked the smack won't offer props to the others afterwards even when they were dead wrong.

have you no shame.....

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

have you no shame.....

Hooves,
I made two board bets of 20 bucks on the Juvy, yeah the rail was scraped to the nubs but the horse won by ten in an incredible performance, nothing to argue. Props to those who had street sense, and where do you want me to send the money guys, etc. What else can you say? I was wrong and they were right.
Back before GZ had stretched out I offered doubts about his 10f ability, he roasted em, and I had to give the kid props for saying all year long that he was the greatest in a long time, no doubt.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Hooves,
I made two board bets of 20 bucks on the Juvy, yeah the rail was scraped to the nubs but the horse won by ten in an incredible performance, nothing to argue. Props to those who had street sense, and where do you want me to send the money guys, etc. What else can you say? I was wrong and they were right.
Back before GZ had stretched out I offered doubts about his 10f ability, he roasted em, and I had to give the kid props for saying all year long that he was the greatest in a long time, no doubt.

what about the fact that when they said they liked the horse you said the were morons ect...many here gave ivasor his props..i mean it wasnt that hard too see he was the top two...so why the big deal..remember blugrass cat you said he would give a gut check..not,,flower alley..he would not..so whats the big deal your no capping wizard cuz you liked the 2d choice in the betting..get real..

[Pedigree Ann]

There was a photo of the finish of the Classic in the Lexington paper this morning with the announcement of Bernardini's retirement - don't you love a paper that sees a stallion retirement as a news event? Anyway, in the photo Bernardini has his ears back, clearly trying hard, while Invasor has his ears pricked and looks almost in hand. Invasor is simply the better horse at this point. Bernardini did not lose the race so much as Invasor actively won it.

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

what about the fact that when they said they liked the horse you said the were morons ect...many here gave ivasor his props..i mean it wasnt that hard too see he was the top two...so why the big deal..remember blugrass cat you said he would give a gut check..not,,flower alley..he would not..so whats the big deal your no capping wizard cuz you liked the 2d choice in the betting..get real..

Hooves actually I didn't single Invasor. I used Invasor, Lawyer Ron, and Bernadini in pik-3's ok? I pressed Invasor.
Bluegrass Cat broke his leg, so I think he gets a pass. And after Flower Alley's washout in the Whitney I backed off hard.
Quite frankly I think FA's BCC last year was a better effort than Bern's this year. He didn't go on at age 4, it happens but absolutely no excuses.
I ain't claiming to be no charter member of the Invasor fan club, no way no how.
I got lucky twice this year in Kentucky in using someone else's knowledge or information and incorporating it into a score. For any photos I lost or bad beats, BCC day was a makeup for that.
I lost about 5 hard beats Wednesday-Friday and was bitching about my bad luck.
After that dq in the Round Pond race Lans told me he didn't wanna hear no more about luck, and I agreed.
But I gotta take **** about CQ and ain't ducking it. I was wrong.
I also gotta take **** from Sniper(who must be a classy guy or real busy right now cause he trumped me twice and ain't busted my balls on here or in a PM yet) and give him props. His Asi prediction was real bold, and I imagine my good fortune was his bad fortune and she deserved to win or be 2nd.
I made Invasor my key in the race and told many others from this board that on the phone and in conference via cajun Gator due to some incredibly amazing good luck as well. Of all places to meet someone connected with the horse, a Jiffy Lube? I'm serious. On Monday i went to get my oil changed in preparation for the trip and heard the lady behind the counter say"Mr. Mclaughlin your car will be ready in 20 minutes". Guy is wearing a Dubai World Cup hat and has red hair, I know Kiarins brother is named neal and runs the operation up here in Toga all year for his brother but I never met the guy. So I ask him if hes Neil and he says yeah pleased to meet you. I had called kiarin the day before who I do know asking him if a cheap NY bred maiden he has who got beat in a state bred 35K is for sale for a Finger lakes client of mine, Chris Englehart.
Neil says hes getting ready to ship out of town as well and go down to the BC and hopes Kiarin sells that horse because hes shipping everything down to Belmont and they need a free stall. I asked him a few things about Invasor, like about "the fever" and how hes doing. I liked him, but didn't know about that long layoff. Tells me horse has neve, ever, trained better in his life. I liked the horse, but not as much as i did after that convo. Guy was cool as hell also, really good dude and humble like his brother. My respect for those guys went way up because I think this was one of the great training jobs in history.
I ain't claiming I loved the horse and he was a cinch, blah blah blah.
To me I always thought bern was talented(only an idiot would claim he ain't great) but that he had always had small fields with no traffic or hot pace and thought he was vulnerable if looked in the eye.
I got some good luck at, of all places, a ****ing Jiffy Lube.
I have no problem offering props where due, and admitting being wrong, or admitting being lucky like when my clocker said Barbaro was training better than any horse he had seen in his whole life before the Derby and tossing him in on top in the tri when I had doubts about his dry dirt ability.
A wise guy knows when hes been lucky, good, or both, and doesn't try to redboard that he was a genius when he in fact was not.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

There was a photo of the finish of the Classic in the Lexington paper this morning with the announcement of Bernardini's retirement - don't you love a paper that sees a stallion retirement as a news event? Anyway, in the photo Bernardini has his ears back, clearly trying hard, while Invasor has his ears pricked and looks almost in hand. Invasor is simply the better horse at this point. Bernardini did not lose the race so much as Invasor actively won it.

My respect for you just went to the moon. Apologies for any previous squirmishes.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

There was a photo of the finish of the Classic in the Lexington paper this morning with the announcement of Bernardini's retirement - don't you love a paper that sees a stallion retirement as a news event? Anyway, in the photo Bernardini has his ears back, clearly trying hard, while Invasor has his ears pricked and looks almost in hand. Invasor is simply the better horse at this point. Bernardini did not lose the race so much as Invasor actively won it.

Exactly. This is something that not many people mention. Invasor was full of run at the end of that race. I just hope he races another year. If he does I think its possible that by the end of the year he'll be the one being heralded and compared to the greats. We'll see. He brings a ton of speed and guts to the racetrack and the race does not need to set-up for him.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

And congrats to Arljim, he's one that I remember for a long time saying how good Invasior was....

I just remembered the person who should get the most props regarding Invasor is our Brazilian friend FMC123412. Way back before his first NA start in May, he posted back on ESPN that this horse was a phenom down south and that we should take a good look at him. This was before the Pimlico Special. I took a look and bet him that day at 6:1 and I was impressed so I followed him ever since.

FMC, good job! Your horse has now conquered two continents.

Who knows, in March it could become three continents.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I just remembered the person who should get the most props regarding Invasor is our Brazilian friend FMC123412. Way back before his first NA start in May, he posted back on ESPN that this horse was a phenom down south and that we should take a good look at him. This was before the Pimlico Special. I took a look and bet him that day at 6:1 and I was impressed so I followed him ever since.

FMC, good job! Your horse has now conquered two continents.

Who knows, in March it could become three continents.

That's true FMC is a valued person on this board, always has good info...

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

There was a photo of the finish of the Classic in the Lexington paper this morning with the announcement of Bernardini's retirement - don't you love a paper that sees a stallion retirement as a news event? Anyway, in the photo Bernardini has his ears back, clearly trying hard, while Invasor has his ears pricked and looks almost in hand. Invasor is simply the better horse at this point. Bernardini did not lose the race so much as Invasor actively won it.

I saw this too, Ann and I immediately thought about that topic we all had on here regarding what it meant when a horse had his/her ears pricked at the finish line. I remember many posters telling me that I was a complete moron for LIKING when a horse had their ears pricked down the stretch.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I saw this too, Ann and I immediately thought about that topic we all had on here regarding what it meant when a horse had his/her ears pricked at the finish line. I remember many posters telling me that I was a complete moron for LIKING when a horse had their ears pricked down the stretch.

i love this tread....

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Missed the point? Hardly.

Over and over you were quick to characterize someone with the label "postrace genius", without even considering what may have been said pre-race. examples;
"I just can't stand when people try to sound like geniuses after the fact" and
"The point is it's much easier to ridicule those who bet Bernardini to even money and singled him after he loses" and "Ah yes, another postrace genius."

I was trying to point out to you that much was said pre-race, and that you might want to consider that before jumping to more conclusions.

"Over and over"? Um, okay. I was talking specifically to Zeig about specifically her comment. There was no need for you to butt in with your link that proved nothing. Show me where I said "There was no one who liked Invasor before the race." My statement was "The point is it's much easier to ridicule those who bet Bernardini to even money and singled him after he loses" and that holds validity no matter what link you pull out, so back up.

And all of this "Bernardini fans can dish it but not take it" bull****.. Give me a break. You want to say Invasor's a better horse? Fine with me. I personally am not going to say that based on one meeting and a one length difference, but if you want to say it, that's not outlandish. You want to say Bernardini was overrated? Cool. Of course he was.. Like dalakhani said, he would've had to win by 10+ NOT to be considered overrated (and for the record, it was mainly the media crowd that was overrating him in order to get people to watch). But to say he lost because of a "lack of heart" or to write him off as a total piece of **** is where I step in. All of that is silly.

By the way, you have no right to ever say a discouraging word about Bernardini if you ever hyped up Lava Man. None. The way things sound around here, you'd swear Bernardini ran last and Lava Man skipped the race. Lava Man was just as hyped earlier in the year as Bernardini was recently, and yet the people who immediately sang the praises of Lava Man's supposed brilliance get no flak whatsoever. It's a ridiculous double standard and I'm tired of it.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

"Over and over"? Um, okay. I was talking specifically to Zeig about specifically her comment. There was no need for you to butt in with your link that proved nothing. Show me where I said "There was no one who liked Invasor before the race." My statement was "The point is it's much easier to ridicule those who bet Bernardini to even money and singled him after he loses" and that holds validity no matter what link you pull out, so back up.

And all of this "Bernardini fans can dish it but not take it" bull****.. Give me a break. You want to say Invasor's a better horse? Fine with me. I personally am not going to say that based on one meeting and a one length difference, but if you want to say it, that's not outlandish. You want to say Bernardini was overrated? Cool. Of course he was.. Like dalakhani said, he would've had to win by 10+ NOT to be considered overrated (and for the record, it was mainly the media crowd that was overrating him in order to get people to watch). But to say he lost because of a "lack of heart" or to write him off as a total piece of **** is where I step in. All of that is silly.

By the way, you have no right to ever say a discouraging word about Bernardini if you ever hyped up Lava Man. None. The way things sound around here, you'd swear Bernardini ran last and Lava Man skipped the race. Lava Man was just as hyped earlier in the year as Bernardini was recently, and yet the people who immediately sang the praises of Lava Man's supposed brilliance get no flak whatsoever. It's a ridiculous double standard and I'm tired of it.

Maybe your statement was valid but shouldn't it have been directed to someone that had made post race judgements? Zeig didn't, so who was it directed towards?

In my opinion your continued hot comments make you the poster-child for the "Bernardini fans can dish it but not take it" accusations. That was not an accusation I brought up but you addressed it to me so I responded.

I've never hyped Lava Man for the Classic. Many people liked him but to me he was a throwout and yes I posted that pre-race.

Maybe you're missing the point. I don't see anyone writing off Bernardini as total piece of ****. In my mind this exercise has been mainly about elevating
Invasor to the status he belongs as well as being a little more realistic about how good Bernardini was.

Frankly you seem to be still steaming about what happened. In my opinion some of your comments on this thread seem rather bellicose for a "super moderator".