What if???

RockHardTen1985 · #1 03-16-2010, 04:06 PM

Baffert trained Zenyatta, would she be undefeated? Would she not be undefeated but have had a lot more aggrasive campaign? Races such as the Whitney and JCGC? Discuss....

Indian Charlie · #2 03-16-2010, 04:12 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOKK8mAkiUI

Indian Charlie · #3 03-16-2010, 04:13 PM

Zenyatta would have raced much earlier likely.

That's all I can say.

That, and she might have been faster.

DaTruth · #4 03-16-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Baffert trained Zenyatta, would she be undefeated? Would she not be undefeated but have had a lot more aggrasive campaign? Races such as the Whitney and JCGC? Discuss....

She would be more than just the Megahertz of the SoCal synthetic tracks.

RockHardTen1985 · #5 03-16-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaTruth

She would be more than just the Megahertz of the SoCal synthetic tracks.

MegaherTz won a Grade 1 on dirt, beating a CHAMPION???

pointman · #6 03-16-2010, 04:54 PM

John Sheriff's is a GOD! He is the best trainer there ever was!

letswastemoney · #7 03-16-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

MegaherTz won a Grade 1 on dirt, beating a CHAMPION???

Brownie Points beat a champion that day as well. Ginger Punch just didn't fire

the_fat_man · #8 03-16-2010, 05:22 PM

If Baffert trained her, chances are, Espinosa would've been up for at least for one ride. Which means she'd have at least one loss.

randallscott35 · #9 03-16-2010, 05:23 PM

I can tell you what would have happened to her if Lukas trained her.

smuthg · #10 03-16-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Brownie Points beat a champion that day as well. Ginger Punch just didn't fire

they parked Ginger Punch on the lead on a on a dead rail at Oaklawn that day. not that it would have matter

RockHardTen1985 · #11 03-16-2010, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Brownie Points beat a champion that day as well. Ginger Punch just didn't fire

Thats fine and all, but who cares if Ginger Punch showed up or not? She would have been no match on her BEST DAY... Z toyed with that group for absoulte fun... Ginger Punch was neat and all ran in a lot of dances but dam she was slow. Icon Projects best 2 races are many lenghts better then Ginger Punches career best.

philcski · #12 03-16-2010, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Thats fine and all, but who cares if Ginger Punch showed up or not? She would have been no match on her BEST DAY...Z toyed with that group for absoulte fun... Ginger Punch was neat and all ran in a lot of dances but dam she was slow. Icon Projects best 2 races are many lenghts better then Ginger Punches career best.

I agree with this. And I was a big fan of her... in fact my cat's name is Ginger Punch.

RockHardTen1985 · #13 03-16-2010, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

I agree with this. And I was a big fan of her... in fact my cat's name is Ginger Punch.

I respect Ginger Punch she ran a lot and ran hard, but always seemed to come back slow and never seemed to have much competition...

The Indomitable DrugS · #14 03-16-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointman

John Sheriff's is a GOD! He is the best trainer there ever was!

Name one living that has more skill than him?

That's right ... you can't ... because there isn't anyone.

The guy has started almost 1,700 horses since '96 and shows a flat bet profit.

He won at a 40% clip for the entire year of 1999 - on what was easily the single toughest circuit year round circuit at the time - Southern California.

He won a Kentucky Derby with Giacomo - and a BC Distaff and BC Classic the same year with two females ... but none of any of that really matters.

What matters is what he did with first time starters in the late 90's when he trained for 505. The guy had very few babies .. and almost everyone of them ran mind-boggling in their debut.

He won at better than 50% with first-time-starters over a 3 years stretch from '98 through '00 (15-for-29) ... many of his debut winners paid generous mutuals .. and several of them won their debuts with triple digit Beyer figures. More than one of his took their debut with a 110 Beyer.

David Copperfield was 7/2 and outgamed future KY Derby winner Fusaichi Pegasus in his debut winning with a mid 90's Beyer. What was he ... like only the 12th most impressive of his 29 debut runners over that span?

The guy consistantly got seriously good young horses to run lifetime best races off of nothing but workouts. I'm talking Graded Stakes caliber performances. Cliquot lost his debut by a nose to General Challenge at like 5/1. Swept Overboard got nipped by Here's Zealous and ran a 100 beyer in defeat in his debut. It very easily could have been 17-for-29 instead of 15-for-29 with four 2nds.

RockHardTen1985 · #15 03-16-2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Name one living that has more skill than him?

That's right ... you can't ... because there isn't anyone.

The guy has started almost 1,700 horses since '96 and shows a flat bet profit.

He won at a 40% clip for the entire year of 1999 - on what was easily the single toughest circuit year round circuit at the time - Southern California.

He won a Kentucky Derby with Giacomo - and a BC Distaff and BC Classic the same year with two females ... but none of any of that really matters.

What matters is what he did with first time starters in the late 90's when he trained for 505. The guy had very few babies .. and almost everyone of them ran mind-boggling in their debut.

He won at better than 50% with first-time-starters over a 3 years stretch from '98 through '00 (15-for-29) ... many of his debut winners paid generous mutuals .. and several of them won their debuts with triple digit Beyer figures. More than one of his took their debut with a 110 Beyer.

David Copperfield was 7/2 and outgamed future KY Derby winner Fusaichi Pegasus in his debut winning with a mid 90's Beyer. What was he ... like only the 12th most impressive of his 29 debut runners over that span?

The guy consistantly got seriously good young horses to run lifetime best races off of nothing but workouts. I'm talking Graded Stakes caliber performances. Cliquot lost his debut by a nose to General Challenge at like 5/1. Swept Overboard got nipped by Here's Zealous and ran a 100 beyer in defeat in his debut. It very easily could have been 17-for-29 instead of 15-for-29 with four 2nds.

BAFFERT

DaTruth · #16 03-16-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

BAFFERT

You make a compelling case.

RockHardTen1985 · #17 03-16-2010, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaTruth

You make a compelling case.

Drugs is about to do it for me....

The Indomitable DrugS · #18 03-16-2010, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Drugs is about to do it for me....

Baffert's Misremembered did just barely hold off Shireff's 7yo Neko Bay in the Big Cap a few weeks ago.

I guess that settles it.

justindew · #19 03-16-2010, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He won at better than 50% with first-time-starters over a 3 years stretch from '98 through '00 (15-for-29) ... many of his debut winners paid generous mutuals .. and several of them won their debuts with triple digit Beyer figures. More than one of his took their debut with a 110 Beyer.

David Copperfield was 7/2 and outgamed future KY Derby winner Fusaichi Pegasus in his debut winning with a mid 90's Beyer. What was he ... like only the 12th most impressive of his 29 debut runners over that span?

Seriously? Multiple 110 Beyer debuts? Who?

...and....

Are you sure that was David Copperfields debut?

Not arguing. Just asking.

Scurlogue Champ · #20 03-16-2010, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Name one living that has more skill than him?

That's right ... you can't ... because there isn't anyone.

The guy has started almost 1,700 horses since '96 and shows a flat bet profit.

He won at a 40% clip for the entire year of 1999 - on what was easily the single toughest circuit year round circuit at the time - Southern California.

He won a Kentucky Derby with Giacomo - and a BC Distaff and BC Classic the same year with two females ... but none of any of that really matters.

What matters is what he did with first time starters in the late 90's when he trained for 505. The guy had very few babies .. and almost everyone of them ran mind-boggling in their debut.

He won at better than 50% with first-time-starters over a 3 years stretch from '98 through '00 (15-for-29) ... many of his debut winners paid generous mutuals .. and several of them won their debuts with triple digit Beyer figures. More than one of his took their debut with a 110 Beyer.

David Copperfield was 7/2 and outgamed future KY Derby winner Fusaichi Pegasus in his debut winning with a mid 90's Beyer. What was he ... like only the 12th most impressive of his 29 debut runners over that span?

The guy consistantly got seriously good young horses to run lifetime best races off of nothing but workouts. I'm talking Graded Stakes caliber performances. Cliquot lost his debut by a nose to General Challenge at like 5/1. Swept Overboard got nipped by Here's Zealous and ran a 100 beyer in defeat in his debut. It very easily could have been 17-for-29 instead of 15-for-29 with four 2nds.

Bart Cummings.