If Zenyatta wins the Classic

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

OMG.

Special stuff

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Special stuff

I just walked outside to see if the moon was full.

[letswastemoney]

Although racing against open company doesn't necessarily mean the competition is better, it shows that one horse's camp isn't afraid of ducking anyone.

The Woodward was open to any horse. Zenyatta could have been entered.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Although racing against open company doesn't necessarily mean the competition is better, it shows that one horse's camp isn't afraid of ducking anyone.

The Woodward was open to any horse. Zenyatta could have been entered.

For that, the connections get credit. The horse didn't chose the spot though.

[dean smith]

If RA and Zenyatta were boxers or MMA fighters, the public and the press would DEMAND that they meet and the money would become so enticing they would. Nobody wants to see co-heavyweight champions of the world, and "what ifs" are overrated (see the college football pro-BCS argument, "it's got us talkin' about it" nonsense). Anyone and everyone with the slightest interest ought to be leaning on the owners to make this happen. This is another chance for the game to get more exposure at what could be a prime time to grow (they say alcohol and gambling are recession-proof industries), and ought to classify as one of those "for the good of the game" moments.

I love the sport, but I'm a newcomer (just a few years really INTO it), so perhaps my viewpoint is different than a lot of you who have been around. It just seems to me that racing misses out on a lot of opportunities. I'm all for appreciating two stars for what they are, but this matchup would be an historic one.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by copying

I have a lot of admiration for Peppers Pride. A better analogy is: RA is this years' Sightseek but Jess won't make the same mistake and risk her against the best.

put down the pipe.

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by CrossfireHurricane

That is a very unfair statement.

I suspect they will run her in the Classic and I doubt the owner will get an apology from you either for calling them tight asses. Tight asses don't bring back 4 year old champion horses for another season.

Bayakoa (5), Paseana (5), Ginger Punch...Why bother being in the game if you are going to run a superior female nine times, get an Eclipse, and then retire? It is not like she would have been servicing 60 mares this year. .

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

To me, it's hypocrital to say that it's not about one day or one race after they've awarded many championships to horses simply because of one race.

I see no problem giving a divisional award to a horse that has run only once in NA....i.e. Arazi. The big prize, Horse of the Year, is a different tune though. It should be based on a body of work for the year, not one race

At this point, my ratings would be...

1....Rachel
2....Gio Ponti
3....Summer Bird

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I think it depends on the individual voter and what they are looking for. If I had a vote, I would have voted for Ghostzapper as the 2005 HOY even though he only ran in the Met Mile in May. I try to look for a horse that qualifies under the stated criteria and as long as that horse is a qualified contender, I don't care if they've run once or 100 times here. I try to vote on the horse that I thought was the best one, not necessarily the most accomplished one.

So I guess you would agree with Native Dancer being HOY in '54 with his only graded stakes win of the year being the Met Mile.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Slewbopper

I see no problem giving a divisional award to a horse that has run only once in NA....i.e. Arazi. The big prize, Horse of the Year, is a different tune though. It should be based on a body of work for the year, not one race

At this point, my ratings would be...

1....Rachel
2....Gio Ponti
3....Summer Bird

generally, it is based on the body of work. much as i don't like seeing a horse swoop in from europe, win one race, and walk away with an eclipse, the argument can be made that they had an outstanding year-high chapparal for instance. they just may not have had an outstanding year here. so, much as i thought with anticipation should have gotten the nod for top turfer, i can certainly understand why he did not. BUT, i think the vote for high chapparal proves the point that the bc has too much weight given to it by voters. hence my argument that a win in the bcc, over what is presumably the best field assembled in the year, isn't necessarily an indication of who the best horse is all year. case in point for that is volponi.

i don't think the award should be given for who someone feels is the best, but for the horse who has competed at the highest level all year, and with the most consistency. the horse who best showed ability, regardless of surface, track, competition, length of race, etc.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by copying

Not hardly... Zenyatta has beaten the best of the west. Then she went to Oaklawn and drilled the best of the east (defending champ Ginger Punch). Then she went in the championship race and beat the best the world had to throw against her.

RA barely held off Macho Again? LOL

C'mon Jess, maybe she is good enough to compete with the best in the world???? Give her a chance.

you leave out the part where she won the haskell and the preakness while zenyatta was beating the usual suspects. zenyatta beat ginger punch when she was a step or two slower. this year shes beat practically no one. RA has also won in evey part of the country except the west coast. i f you ask me zenyatta is more of a peppers pride. she has not been in a race shes supposed to lose! she would of had a great shot in the woodward. the pace was perfect for her. if the connections wanted to nail HOY, they would of showed up. just sitting there racing scrubs saying you are the best because you win, doesn't cut it. i doubt she even runs in the classic because she would probably get trounced. RA is real good and as far as i can see the best horse at 9 furlongs in the country. you are arguing with some people that think shes better than ruffian, thats when i start to laugh.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Slewbopper

I see no problem giving a divisional award to a horse that has run only once in NA....i.e. Arazi. The big prize, Horse of the Year, is a different tune though. It should be based on a body of work for the year, not one race

At this point, my ratings would be...

1....Rachel
2....Gio Ponti
3....Summer Bird

You do know that the year Arazi won he divisional championship, he was also one of the three finalist for HOY too right? That means that he was considered over many horses that had a body of work for the year. You say the big prize IS a different tune but how can you logically say that when Arazi was a finalist off of one race? As I've said so many times, I'd have no problem with changing the qualifying criteria to saying that a horse has to be based in this country and run the majority of their races here or maybe a four race minimum here. But as long as it only says that a horse needs to have raced once, I don't see how everyone can say that it's based on the whole year when that's contrary to what it says. If an individual voter wants to only consider American based horses, that's fine. But the person that considers the best horse among all qualified horses is equally right.

I'm not old enough to know what happened in 1954.

[copying]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

you leave out the part where she won the haskell and the preakness while zenyatta was beating the usual suspects. zenyatta beat ginger punch when she was a step or two slower. this year shes beat practically no one. RA has also won in evey part of the country except the west coast. i f you ask me zenyatta is more of a peppers pride. she has not been in a race shes supposed to lose! she would of had a great shot in the woodward. the pace was perfect for her. if the connections wanted to nail HOY, they would of showed up. just sitting there racing scrubs saying you are the best because you win, doesn't cut it. i doubt she even runs in the classic because she would probably get trounced. RA is real good and as far as i can see the best horse at 9 furlongs in the country. you are arguing with some people that think shes better than ruffian, thats when i start to laugh.

Z is on a course prepping to be on the track on Championship day as their plans were long ago announced. You think the Woodward was that day?
RA's nose win over the DRF's described field of "several decent runners" was HOY material? How laughable...

I've never claimed Z to be superhorse, I'm just saying RA hasn't done anything to stake that claim.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by copying

Z is on a course prepping to be on the track on Championship day as their plans were long ago announced. You think the Woodward was that day?
RA's nose win over the DRF's described field of "several decent runners" was HOY material? How laughable...

I've never claimed Z to be superhorse, I'm just saying RA hasn't done anything to stake that claim.

Speaking of laughable....

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by copying

Z is on a course prepping to be on the track on Championship day as their plans were long ago announced. You think the Woodward was that day?
RA's nose win over the DRF's described field of "several decent runners" was HOY material? How laughable...

I've never claimed Z to be superhorse, I'm just saying RA hasn't done anything to stake that claim.

Who is then? Pioneerof Denial? (Yes, I know, I await the tomatoes. It was a play on words with the poster and--nevermind) All I know is I'll be willing and able to tell fans in the future that I remember Rachel Alexandra and boy was she something special. She's got "it" whatever that is, and I figure when faced with that, we need to recognize its presence. You don't have to beat Secretariat to be a superhorse. If you did, well, all hail Onion... In the Woodward, she didn't just do something incredible for the year, she did something that'd be incredible in any year. So maybe it's not the official championship, but it represents something that deserves a lot of respect.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by copying

Z is on a course prepping to be on the track on Championship day as their plans were long ago announced. You think the Woodward was that day?
RA's nose win over the DRF's described field of "several decent runners" was HOY material? How laughable...

I've never claimed Z to be superhorse, I'm just saying RA hasn't done anything to stake that claim.

Why should the BC be "championship" day??? Championships are won throughout the whole year. That's why they call it "Horse of the Year" and not Horse of the Breeder's Cup 2009

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Why should the BC be "championship" day??? Championships are won throughout the whole year. That's why they call it "Horse of the Year" and not Horse of the Breeder's Cup 2009

it's not championship day. the bc calls it that, but that doesn't make it so.

[Arletta]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Who is then? Pioneerof Denial? (Yes, I know, I await the tomatoes. It was a play on words with the poster and--nevermind) All I know is I'll be willing and able to tell fans in the future that I remember Rachel Alexandra and boy was she something special. She's got "it" whatever that is, and I figure when faced with that, we need to recognize its presence. You don't have to beat Secretariat to be a superhorse. If you did, well, all hail Onion... In the Woodward, she didn't just do something incredible for the year, she did something that'd be incredible in any year. So maybe it's not the official championship, but it represents something that deserves a lot of respect.

Well said Merlinsky

[copying]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Why should the BC be "championship" day??? Championships are won throughout the whole year. That's why they call it "Horse of the Year" and not Horse of the Breeder's Cup 2009

It shouldn't be -- but that's what it's become -- like it or not.

[copying]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Who is then? Pioneerof Denial? (Yes, I know, I await the tomatoes. It was a play on words with the poster and--nevermind) All I know is I'll be willing and able to tell fans in the future that I remember Rachel Alexandra and boy was she something special. She's got "it" whatever that is, and I figure when faced with that, we need to recognize its presence. You don't have to beat Secretariat to be a superhorse. If you did, well, all hail Onion... In the Woodward, she didn't just do something incredible for the year, she did something that'd be incredible in any year. So maybe it's not the official championship, but it represents something that deserves a lot of respect.

I guess that nose victory over a field of "several decent runners" is incredible to you.