Lava Man back in training? - Page 3

hoovesupsideyourhead · #41 09-25-2009, 07:38 AM

lava is great i hope he does well....

Kasept · #42 09-25-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

I don't know Steve, someone comes to you tells you they want to make your horse feel better. You spend a ton of money getting him to feel better with some new treatment and you see the horse improve 500%. It's not so unbelieveable that the horse loves to race and train. He is a racehorse he always seems to run hard willingly on the track right. So you start him back doing what the horse enjoys you see him thrive. What's the biggie giving him a shot to be what he was? Clearly the horse isn't going into claimers so in all candor what is the big figgin deal if Brett Farve doesn't want to retire yet? I would venture to say that horse is way better off mentally being in training then just getting old in some paddock.

As for if this will somehow excelerate is demise or death. Come on, nobody is looking to kill Lava Man and working 4 f's and breaking a leg is a likely as tripping in the paddock after a truck blows his diesel horn andf spooks him.
Who wouldn't be thrilled to see him race well again? You don't think the horse would rather be running his heart out instead of growing fat and old in some field?

I also don't believe for a minute that this is just about the horse..There isn't any doubt the owners would like to earn from the horse regaining his form but I don't have issue with that either. Wouldn't it be a win,win,win scenario if he would be the old Lava Man...Public, Owners, Horse?

Of course it will be nice for him to come back anywhere close to good form. That isn't at issue. That will be swell. The problematic aspect about this is that a member of the ownership group knowingly obfuscated the plans for Lava Man and dealt in bad faith for close to a year with the facility where he was going to be retired. He wasn't going to grow old and fat in some godforsaken field... He was going to a retirement farm where the public could enjoy him and interact with him.

If Kenly was going to try stem cell therapy to see how the horse reacted and if his career could be extended, he should have made that clear from the start or whatever point he initiated the treatments. And then it should have been announced that they were going to attempt to bring Lava Man back via the therapy. Instead, they raised expectations that he was going to be coming to Old Friends and gave the racing public a certain message. And now the message has changed. And it's a bad message with potentially embarrassing and damaging consequences.

In an environment where the industry is under a microscope, to use a high profile horse like Lava Man as a guinea pig is a bad idea under the specific circumstances we're looking at... And if people don't understand the whys and wherefores of that, they haven't been paying attention to the climate around the game.

Sightseek · #43 09-25-2009, 08:47 AM

He's a thoroughbred, of course he's excited to be back out running again, but that doesn't mean racing should be the only option in my opinion. Clearly the years of racing have taken a toll on him. Just because a horse wants to do something doesn't mean it is right for them...as anyone who has ridden a thoroughbred will atest, they don't exactly do what's best for them.

O'Neil was saying Lava Man was working very well before the retirement - but he was running like a horse who lost interest..did anyone really enjoy watching that?

Everyone loves a comeback story, but personally I just wouldn't fool around with a horse who has already written a fairy tale like story in the history books.

LARHAGE · #44 09-25-2009, 08:54 AM

The issue for me is Lava Man is 8 years old!!! This isn't a 3 or 4 year old with maturity aiding the healing process, the notion that his ankles look like a 3 year olds are complete bullshit!!, unless of course they were comparing him to a 3 year old with cantalope sized ankles, this endeavor reeks of nothing but missing the spotlight and or the money, nothing else!!

King Glorious · #45 09-25-2009, 09:16 AM

So am I to believe that it's standard procedure in racing that once plans are made and announced, they might as well be written in stone and taken as true fact all the time? Didn't Tim Ritchie tell us all summer that Afleet Alex was coming back and that he was 99% healthy......only to retire him without racing again? Weren't we told that Quality Road's issues were minor and would only keep him out a couple of days of training..........only to have him miss the Derby and the next several months of racing? Wasn't Azeri done racing.....only to be winning grade one races the next year with another trainer? Plans and intentions one day can change and it doesn't have to mean the people were being liars the whole time.

Why is Lava Man more at risk than Jambalaya? Or Brass Hat? Or Da Hoss? Or any other horse out there racing? If they bring him back and the horse finishes last a couple of times, is he going to be laying in his stall crying and feeling embarrassed and thinking "damn, there goes my legacy"? That legacy and memory stuff is for the human fans. The horse couldn't care less about it. Seeing him perform below his old standards would bother his fans and they don't want to see it. People always talk about doing what's right for the horse. If they really want to do that, they would never saddle them up, pump them full of drugs, put a little man on their back, and make them race. And for good measure, when they are out there trying hard and they get tires, they get whipped. People need to quit being naive. Probably 90-95% of the time, people are doing what's best for them. If it's good for the horse too, that's just an added bonus. Saying that, the owners/trainer of Lava Man are more than likely doing what's best for them. But that doesn't automatically mean that what they are doing is hurting Lava Man.

Dunbar · #46 09-25-2009, 09:41 AM

I'm completely with Riot, freddymo, and KG on this. I wish Lava Man the best and, in this case, wish O'Neill the best. O'Neill has nothing to gain monetarily, and much more to lose than gain reputation-wise.

It would look so bad for O'Neill and the owners should anything bad happen, that they will be looking for ANY sign that he shouldn't go forward. Because of that, I don't think there's much chance Lava Man will actually race, but I still applaud the effort. If Lava Man ever does start again, we can rest assured that he will have been thoroughly checked out before hand.

--Dunbar

LARHAGE · #47 09-25-2009, 10:45 AM

It's deplorable because of the age of this horse, I hate that old bullshit line that he was unhappy retired, well guess what he was also probably unhappy when he was brought in from pasture and put into a stall to train as well, they learn to adapt, and if he truly does hate the life of leisure than I'm positive there would be a 10 mile line of people willing to ride this horse on the trails in a nice stable ( including me). This horse, of ANY horse has done enough for his connections to warrant a safe retirement, the fact they would even risk a catastrophic injury says all I need to know about them, and he's at risk everytime he steps on the track, I know every other horse in the world does as well, but this is LAVA MAN, he is a track hero and should be treated as such, horses are totally dependent on us to do the right thing, they have no choice and will do as we ask of them, I have no doubt LM has the heart and desire to run, but he definately does not have the physical ability to match, do we really need to see a futile effort from a once champion horse that just can't compete anymore or worse? If anyone thinks the motive is anything but self-serving greed than your naive. It's a travesty to this horse, plain and simple.

Riot · #48 09-25-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

And as an aside, Riot failed to mention that after injuries in one place, horses regularly favor or overcompensate which can produce stress and injury elsewhere.

Of course that's true, it can happen. Do you have any evidence or indication that was the case with the filly in question?

I doubt it is your position that horses should never be healed, rehabbed and brought back into training after any injury - or is it?

Riot · #49 09-25-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

The problematic aspect about this is that a member of the ownership group knowingly obfuscated the plans for Lava Man and dealt in bad faith for close to a year with the facility where he was going to be retired. He wasn't going to grow old and fat in some godforsaken field... He was going to a retirement farm where the public could enjoy him and interact with him.

I agree you have a very valid point with the above. That's pretty low.

But now the public can enjoy Lava Man on the track. Old Friends is 15 minutes away from where I live. I personally will be happier to see Lava Man on the TV screen, racing (if he does get back to that - it may not yet happen) than to make a monthly visit to watch him graze in a pasture.

Riot · #50 09-25-2009, 11:05 AM

[quote=LARHAGE]The issue for me is Lava Man is 8 years old!!! This isn't a 3 or 4 year old with maturity aiding the healing process, the notion that his ankles look like a 3 year olds are complete bullshit!!,QUOTE]

No, stem cell therapy aided the healing process.

King Glorious · #51 09-25-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

It's deplorable because of the age of this horse, I hate that old bullshit line that he was unhappy retired, well guess what he was also probably unhappy when he was brought in from pasture and put into a stall to train as well, they learn to adapt, and if he truly does hate the life of leisure than I'm positive there would be a 10 mile line of people willing to ride this horse on the trails in a nice stable ( including me). This horse, of ANY horse has done enough for his connections to warrant a safe retirement, the fact they would even risk a catastrophic injury says all I need to know about them, and he's at risk everytime he steps on the track, I know every other horse in the world does as well, but this is LAVA MAN, he is a track hero and should be treated as such, horses are totally dependent on us to do the right thing, they have no choice and will do as we ask of them, I have no doubt LM has the heart and desire to run, but he definately does not have the physical ability to match, do we really need to see a futile effort from a once champion horse that just can't compete anymore or worse? If anyone thinks the motive is anything but self-serving greed than your naive. It's a travesty to this horse, plain and simple.

Age? Seriously? Ever heard of Better Talk Now? The Tin Man? The only reason you are against this is because you don't want to see him losing races.

Danzig · #52 09-25-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

It's deplorable because of the age of this horse, I hate that old bullshit line that he was unhappy retired, well guess what he was also probably unhappy when he was brought in from pasture and put into a stall to train as well, they learn to adapt, and if he truly does hate the life of leisure than I'm positive there would be a 10 mile line of people willing to ride this horse on the trails in a nice stable ( including me). This horse, of ANY horse has done enough for his connections to warrant a safe retirement, the fact they would even risk a catastrophic injury says all I need to know about them, and he's at risk everytime he steps on the track, I know every other horse in the world does as well, but this is LAVA MAN, he is a track hero and should be treated as such, horses are totally dependent on us to do the right thing, they have no choice and will do as we ask of them, I have no doubt LM has the heart and desire to run, but he definately does not have the physical ability to match, do we really need to see a futile effort from a once champion horse that just can't compete anymore or worse? If anyone thinks the motive is anything but self-serving greed than your naive. It's a travesty to this horse, plain and simple.

he's eight-not exactly one foot in the grave. eight year olds are perfectly capable of racing at that age, as well as beyond that age.

as for it being a travesty, the horse has no idea what the conditions of a race are-he won't know if it's a graded race or an allowance.

Danzig · #53 09-25-2009, 11:53 AM

http://www.whittierdailynews.com/sports/ci_13416782

Sightseek · #54 09-25-2009, 12:02 PM

Just throwing it out there, but that vet has a lot to gain if this is successful..

LARHAGE · #55 09-25-2009, 12:06 PM

[quote=Riot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

The issue for me is Lava Man is 8 years old!!! This isn't a 3 or 4 year old with maturity aiding the healing process, the notion that his ankles look like a 3 year olds are complete bullshit!!,QUOTE]

No, stem cell therapy aided the healing process.

Stem cell therapy can not fix the fact this horse was no longer competitive.