Rachel Alexandra to Woodward

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Someone has to win those races.

The same could be said for the Woodward if RA wasn't entered. However I don't agree with the thinking that last year's Travers was a slugsfest.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by CSC

I'm really talking about both points, I don't understand how you can say Rachel in the Travers is not more interesting or a better race. Okay we will have to agree to disagree.

It would be a better race with Rachel in it, that is absolutely true. What I said is that I don't think the luster is lost on the Travers just cause of Rachel skipping it. Even without her it is a better Travers than we have seen in several years. And I think the combined quality of the Travers and Woodward now is better than the combined quality of the Travers and Woodward had Rachel gone in the Travers. Now there are two compelling, must see races instead of one.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It would be a better race with Rachel in it, that is absolutely true. What I said is that I don't think the luster is lost on the Travers just cause of Rachel skipping it. Even without her it is a better Travers than we have seen in several years. And I think the combined quality of the Travers and Woodward now is better than the combined quality of the Travers and Woodward had Rachel gone in the Travers. Now there are two compelling, must see races instead of one.

Good post. I agree, the way it fell these 2 races will be better with Rachel running in the Wood. The Travers was alreay really good w/o her. The Wood needs her.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It would be a better race with Rachel in it, that is absolutely true. What I said is that I don't think the luster is lost on the Travers just cause of Rachel skipping it. Even without her it is a better Travers than we have seen in several years. And I think the combined quality of the Travers and Woodward now is better than the combined quality of the Travers and Woodward had Rachel gone in the Travers. Now there are two compelling, must see races instead of one.

I can understand what you are saying now, the way I see it is last year's Travers's field is pretty much the same field we have this year minus RA. The race really needed Big Brown to elevate it to an A race level for some, but without him in it, it is the same as not having RA in this year's race.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by CSC

Because it is historically one of the top Grade 1's for older horses does not necessarily improve her 'legacy' Jess's words not mine... than if she won the Travers this year. I don't think any intelligent follower of the game would say the better field belongs to Woodward this year. While on the other hand you could have the 3 triple crown winners facing off with not to mention a field with depth horses.

i don't recall anyone calling mtb's connections 'chicken' when they didn't go in the haskell, which contained two of the classic winners... she's already beaten the top colts twice, and now she's doing something that is seldom done these days-taking on older males when she's still 3. i can't believe that anyone is complaining considering the route she could be taking...a safe one like a certain other top female.

as for the contention that 10f is why they're skipping the travers....um, yeah-sure. had these guys owned her sooner, she'd have gone in the ky derby.

and it will mean something for her legacy, or whatever you want to call it, should she win the woodward. down the road, when she's long retired, people will bring up this race should she win-not the ones she skipped.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by CSC

I can understand what you are saying now, the way I see it is last year's Travers's field is pretty much the same field we have this year minus RA. The race really needed Big Brown to elevate it to an A race level for some, but without him in it, it is the same as not having RA in this year's race.

Tale of Slowkati had a career high Beyer of 95 going into the race, had a 93 in his last race which was his highest as a 3yo.

Court Vision had a career high Beyer on the dirt of 90.

Cool Coal Man had a career high Beyer of 98.

You can look at what those horses did later and try and say it was a good field but at that time those horses had done nothing and all have still done nothing at 10 furlongs on the dirt.

When I get the PPs for the entries for this year's Travers I'll do a comparison but I am guessing top to bottom this year will win every matchup.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Him winning the Woodward with RA winning the Travers wouldn't help him be three year old of the year? Perhaps if one of those other horses were to defeat her it would raise their stature but their is no way that Jackson believes she will lose to anyone, right or wrong.

he's hoping to get her to win a race that no female has won, with the added bonus of beating older males in a gr 1, as well as having a shot at winning the travers with a possible top 3 yo colt contender.

and i agree, he thinks no one can beat her.

[TouchOfGrey]

Originally Posted by Danzig

he (Jess Jackson) thinks no one can beat her.

Evidently he's not the only one.

Rachel May Send Asiatic Boy to Del Mar

As soon as trainer Kiaran McLaughlin found out Rachel Alexandra would be running in the Woodward Stakes (gr. I) Sept. 5 he quickly contacted Sheikh Mohammed bin Khalifa, the owner of his Woodward hopeful Asiatic Boy, about the possibility of heading to California

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by CSC

I can understand what you are saying now, the way I see it is last year's Travers's field is pretty much the same field we have this year minus RA. The race really needed Big Brown to elevate it to an A race level for some, but without him in it, it is the same as not having RA in this year's race.

Big Brown couldn't have gotten to within 5 lengths of Rachel, juiced too booth.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by TouchOfGrey

Evidently he's not the only one.

Rachel May Send Asiatic Boy to Del Mar

As soon as trainer Kiaran McLaughlin found out Rachel Alexandra would be running in the Woodward Stakes (gr. I) Sept. 5 he quickly contacted Sheikh Mohammed bin Khalifa, the owner of his Woodward hopeful Asiatic Boy, about the possibility of heading to California

Can you blame him?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Sure. Bullsbay, Cool Coal man, Macho Again and Asiatic boy have all been beaten with regularity their whole careers by mediocres. While running in the Woodward is a nice achievement it isnt exactly Holy Bull, Cigar and Skip Away lining up against her.

Giving Kensei a shot to win the second most important 3 year old race is reasonable. All the horses are going to duck her, now McLaughlin is looking for a home for his wanna be Handicap horse. The only reason Pletcher would even try and beat her with QR is because of the magnitude of the race. You think Pletcher wanted to try Munnings in Haskell?
BTW if he only paid 8 mil for Rachel he stole her. Ashado was 10mil and she couldn't have been within 10 lengths of Rachel on her best day.

[tector]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

thats the line or spin they will sell. but it comes down to distance. i'll bet on it. they don't want a mile and quarter up here verses the boys. if the travers were a mile and eighth she would be in. face it, she romps at that distance and probably is the best. her only tough race this year was 1 and 3/16. believe me they are shrewd enough to know her comfort zone. i agree though it is great that she'll run in a race like this.

Another person who has no grasp of what he saw in the Preakness.

[tector]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Great call dude, and it's not even been another two full hours!

Time has not improved the situation.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by CSC

I can understand what you are saying now, the way I see it is last year's Travers's field is pretty much the same field we have this year minus RA. The race really needed Big Brown to elevate it to an A race level for some, but without him in it, it is the same as not having RA in this year's race.

The problem with last year's Travers was last years crop. Other than BB, they just stunk. Yes TOE was the Cigar Mile and Harlem Rocker was a nice colt, beating Bribon (even at a mile) doesn't make you a world beater. The Cigar Mile was like the Travers, a solid evenly matched bunch but not strong, relative to other runnings.
Yes Cool Coal Man is coming to hand well right now (like his sire, a nice 4yo) and Macho Again, when he wants to be and when the situation is right, is a nice horse but as Sightseek pointed out, those two won major races because someone had too.
Comparing renewals of a given race I like to look at what I'd do if all of last years pp's were intesgrated into this years pp's for the same race. For obvious reasons its impossible but comparing such things is always speculative. Is there any horse who's pp's from last years Travers make you think he'd beat the major contenders in this year's running?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Giving Kensei a shot to win the second most important 3 year old race is reasonable. All the horses are going to duck her, now McLaughlin is looking for a home for his wanna be Handicap horse. The only reason Pletcher would even try and beat her with QR is because of the magnitude of the race. You think Pletcher wanted to try Munnings in Haskell?
BTW if he only paid 8 mil for Rachel he stole her. Ashado was 10mil and she couldn't have been within 10 lengths of Rachel on her best day.

Actually, yes. He needed a race between the Tom Fool and the King's Bishop, and if there was ever a track where Munnings could get a Grade I win going 9F (to help the Coolmore boys for stallion purposes), it would be Monmouth.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Actually, yes. He needed a race between the Tom Fool and the King's Bishop, and if there was ever a track where Munnings could get a Grade I win going 9F (to help the Coolmore boys for stallion purposes), it would be Monmouth.

He had to know he was 30/1 to beat her and he certainly would have never tried it without the obvious direction from her owners..That colt needs 7f's or a one turn mile.. The Cigar Mile in November should be his swan song..

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by freddymo

He had to know he was 30/1 to beat her and he certainly would have never tried it without the obvious direction from her owners..That colt needs 7f's or a one turn mile.. The Cigar Mile in November should be his swan song..

Let's hope not. Whether Munnings wins or loses the Cigar Mile, at that point of his career, he probably won't be in the "he's done enough" category.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't recall anyone calling mtb's connections 'chicken' when they didn't go in the haskell, which contained two of the classic winners... she's already beaten the top colts twice, and now she's doing something that is seldom done these days-taking on older males when she's still 3. i can't believe that anyone is complaining considering the route she could be taking...a safe one like a certain other top female.

as for the contention that 10f is why they're skipping the travers....um, yeah-sure. had these guys owned her sooner, she'd have gone in the ky derby.

and it will mean something for her legacy, or whatever you want to call it, should she win the woodward. down the road, when she's long retired, people will bring up this race should she win-not the ones she skipped.

Contrary to belief I would never say Rachel Alexandra's connections are 'chicken'. I actually commend the approach they have taken, that is until now. While I do understand the legacy argument of facing older horses, I do think they are taking the road of less resistence and rather conveniently and are using Kensai who would be hard pressed to win either race as the reason why they chose the Woodward for RA. I would never assume Jess Jackson as dumb, we know who the top dog in that barn is and I am suggesting that he probably looked at both races and determined where RA would fit better in, not where Kensai would. As he should.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Tale of Slowkati had a career high Beyer of 95 going into the race, had a 93 in his last race which was his highest as a 3yo.

Court Vision had a career high Beyer on the dirt of 90.

Cool Coal Man had a career high Beyer of 98.

You can look at what those horses did later and try and say it was a good field but at that time those horses had done nothing and all have still done nothing at 10 furlongs on the dirt.

When I get the PPs for the entries for this year's Travers I'll do a comparison but I am guessing top to bottom this year will win every matchup.

I can't argue numbers or beyers, however why should they be the sole determining factor of quality unless it's a dirt low number. I would prefer a balanced approach of common sense, the analysing of races, race dynamics, the competition and the numbers to reach a fair conclusion.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

Contrary to belief I would never say Rachel Alexandra's connections are 'chicken'. I actually commend the approach they have taken, that is until now. While I do understand the legacy argument of facing older horses, I do think they are taking the road of less resistence and rather conveniently and are using Kensai who would be hard pressed to win either race as the reason why they chose the Woodward for RA. I would never assume Jess Jackson as dumb, we know who the top dog in that barn is and I am suggesting that he probably looked at both races and determined where RA would fit better in, not where Kensai would. As he should.

Do you take into consideration exactly what Asmussen said, which is that a Travers win would make Kensei's career? There aren't any races left that would make Rachel Alexandra have a better career in terms of body of work (with the exception of super goals like the DWC or BCC).

That's the reason why Kensei is in the Travers, they want a GI for him and he belongs there. Period.

NT