govt's gift to us

[Cannon Shell]

http://www.walletpop.com/taxes/new-and-outrageous-taxes

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I don't think you focus enough on the demand side . Your focus is always on the supply side. Get low lifes to have less kids n' you got a lot better shot of the Gov't being able to afford tax cuts. I mean there's nothing wrong with having a civilized society(with a safety net,) but to do almost nothing about attacking the demand for services is incredibly irresponsible(pretty stupid,too.) If they did that, maybe they could afford to reduce their cut of the take-out at the track. I do play that crap at Balmoral(if they give me a particularly good take-out, or a pick 4 carryover etc....I cover my nose, and have no shame.) Still am surprised that crap level of entertainment is even close to being viable though(same for TP,DELTA, The MOUNTAIN ETC.) That CAL EXPO Harness is the biggest head scratcher of them all. If that stuff can keep running in a town as depressed as SUKKAMENTO, then surely TP will survive the situation in the Greater Cincy Paradise.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I don't think you focus enough on the demand side . Your focus is always on the supply side. Get low lifes to have less kids n' you got a lot better shot of the Gov't being able to afford tax cuts. I mean there's nothing wrong with having a civilized society(with a safety net,) but to do almost nothing about attacking the demand for services is incredibly irresponsible(pretty stupid,too.) If they did that, maybe they could afford to reduce their cut of the take-out at the track. I do play that crap at Balmoral(if they give me a particularly good take-out, or a pick 4 carryover etc....I cover my nose, and have no shame.) Still am surprised that crap level of entertainment is even close to being viable though(same for TP,DELTA, The MOUNTAIN ETC.) That CAL EXPO Harness is the biggest head scratcher of them all. If that stuff can keep running in a town as depressed as SUKKAMENTO, then surely TP will survive the situation in the Greater Cincy Paradise.

What exactly does that have with an 18% tax on soda in NY? Or a $15 dollar a day tax on rent a cars in WI? You do realize that our illustrious govt (state, local and Federal) has decided that it is going to save the day by spending however OUR (the citizens) spending ability is being severely curbed by high taxes. I know this is a simplistic view but considering that your argument I'm sure you will respond about Turkey or white rappers.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What exactly does that have with an 18% tax on soda in NY? Or a $15 dollar a day tax on rent a cars in WI?

As you can see, the tax revenue is down, but the demand for Gov't services
etc. (schools, colleges, state health programs etc.) doesn't go down. The problem doesn't have just the 1 part(low tax revenue resulting in the states looking for other sources of revenue...i.e. the new taxes in the article.) The other important part is the demand for services doesn't reduce(because poor people keep making kids they can't afford to take care of.) If you want to get rid of those taxes in the article, the best way to do it is to reduce the numbers of poor people in your state. See, the reason you hear about California having so much trouble is because it's expensive to take care of the schooling, health clinics etc.etc. that comes with the increase in illegal aliens coming to California. You combine that with a poor economy(generating less tax revenue,) and the problem is out of control. Last thing this state needed was this idiot having a litter of 8. She's a taxpayer's nightmare.

I am starting to sense more of a class warfare
attitude. We are constantly hearing about
big wigs taking off with the bucks and this
should be countered by redistributing
wealth via taxes.

I am not entirely comfortable that the Obama
administration has not tried to harder to address
this perceived anger(at least by me).

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I am starting to sense more of a class warfare
attitude. We are constantly hearing about
big wigs taking off with the bucks and this
should be countered by redistributing
wealth via taxes.

I am not entirely comfortable that the Obama
administration has not tried to harder to address
this perceived anger(at least by me).

How do you expect him to address it? Yea, God forbide they have to buy one less horse for 900k - 2 mil etc. Look at your racing form. They really do have that much to spend on a horse. They're really hurting aren't they? They're so overtaxed, but somehow they still have millions to spend on animals. Whatever tax increases he has spoken of are minor.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

How do you expect him to address it?

By simply stating that the economic plan is
NOT intended to redistribute wealth in a completey
unfair way. The plan is designed to blah, blah, blah...

I am not talking about the straight consumption tax
that cannon speaks of. That kind of consumption tax
hurts little guys much more than big guys...
His soda example.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pgardn

By simply stating that the economic plan is
NOT intended to redistribute wealth in a completey
unfair way. The plan is designed to blah, blah, blah...

I am not talking about the straight consumption tax
that cannon speaks of. That kind of consumption tax
hurts little guys much more than big guys...
His soda example.

For one thing, the Gov't doesn't redistribute wealth. Nobody is getting wealthy from something the Gov't is doing(except those getting the no-bid contracts he was talking about last week.) Also, there rarely is anything fair about wealth. The oil companies have been getting rich charging poor people 40-50 cents a gallon profit for quite a while the last 4 or 5 years, and nobody hardly complained about that lack of competition involved. Funny time to bring up fairness after that didn't bother you.

[hurricanefrank]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

For one thing, the Gov't doesn't redistribute wealth.

I disagree. That's what government does. In fact using gov't power to redistribute wealth has long been a staple of progressive thought in this country.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by hurricanefrank

I disagree. That's what government does. In fact using gov't power to redistribute wealth has long been a staple of progressive thought in this country.

The GOV'T doesn't try to make new people wealthy. Gov't uses tax money to help the society as a whole. If it was a more tribal situation, then people would naturally do this. A country like this is made up of people that feel no connection to other members of society(part of this is due to a lack of respect for U.S. Citizenship rights.) That's why people in this country resent taxes so much, and try to avoid paying their share. They give away U.S. Citizenship like it's nothing, and then wonder why people don't want to pay tax to help people that they feel shouldn't even be here. In a more tribal situation, people feel the need to help those that have common blood/language etc. They don't see it as redistribution of wealth, because these people are "their people." They are one, and we can't relate to that well(at all.) That's why most Americans see taxes as a waste(or redistribution) instead of an important commitment to their country(or their people.)

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm sure you will respond about Turkey or white rappers.

Haven't got white rappers. Got a BLACK/TURK singer who is simply better at quick stuff like rap/hip hop. Long notes are a no go .

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hurricanefrank

I disagree. That's what government does. In fact using gov't power to redistribute wealth has long been a staple of progressive thought in this country.

Govt is supposed to govern the people, enforce the laws, keep them safe, provide and maintain infrastructure, deal with foreign govts, etc. They arent designed or intended to be wealth distribution entities. Going down this road is scary. The same address is communism, socialism and dictatorships. While it is only a first step, taking money one segment and basically giving it to another causes major ripples in the pool which ultimately will reflect poorly on the vaunted "middle class".

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

As you can see, the tax revenue is down, but the demand for Gov't services
etc. (schools, colleges, state health programs etc.) doesn't go down. The problem doesn't have just the 1 part(low tax revenue resulting in the states looking for other sources of revenue...i.e. the new taxes in the article.) The other important part is the demand for services doesn't reduce(because poor people keep making kids they can't afford to take care of.) If you want to get rid of those taxes in the article, the best way to do it is to reduce the numbers of poor people in your state. See, the reason you hear about California having so much trouble is because it's expensive to take care of the schooling, health clinics etc.etc. that comes with the increase in illegal aliens coming to California. You combine that with a poor economy(generating less tax revenue,) and the problem is out of control. Last thing this state needed was this idiot having a litter of 8. She's a taxpayer's nightmare.

Demand for govt services is not the problem. The problem is that govt's spending. It is ludicious and wrong to think that the demand for services is causing this deficit and the resultant tax craze. That is what the politicians tell you to give themselves cover. The reality is that this administration has taken the negative spending habits of the previous one and turned it up. Both are wrong but this one has taken us to unsafe levels and they have only started. The problem with taxes of these are that even conservatives when they gat back in power will have a hard time repealing these because politicians are addicted to spending money. The cold hard truth of it is that the vast majority of aggressive politicians ( the ones that rise to positions of power)on both sides of the aisle are obsessed with the power they wield and the main asset of that power is controlling the spendng of our money.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

As you can see, the tax revenue is down, but the demand for Gov't services
etc. (schools, colleges, state health programs etc.) doesn't go down. The problem doesn't have just the 1 part(low tax revenue resulting in the states looking for other sources of revenue...i.e. the new taxes in the article.) The other important part is the demand for services doesn't reduce(because poor people keep making kids they can't afford to take care of.) If you want to get rid of those taxes in the article, the best way to do it is to reduce the numbers of poor people in your state. See, the reason you hear about California having so much trouble is because it's expensive to take care of the schooling, health clinics etc.etc. that comes with the increase in illegal aliens coming to California. You combine that with a poor economy(generating less tax revenue,) and the problem is out of control. Last thing this state needed was this idiot having a litter of 8. She's a taxpayer's nightmare.

You can move to Montana, for God's sake!

[ArlJim78]

here's a little secret, demand for government "services" never goes down.
thats the way the government wants it. it grows by 8-10% per year, we're nearing the point however where it is so large its sucking all the life out of the private sector.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The problem with taxes of these are that even conservatives when they gat back in power will have a hard time repealing these because politicians are addicted to spending money. The cold hard truth of it is that the vast majority of aggressive politicians ( the ones that rise to positions of power)on both sides of the aisle are obsessed with the power they wield and the main asset of that power is controlling the spendng of our money.

This is an interesting take on a very fundamental belief/duty.
Representatives from various States are supposed to lobby
for their State's needs via the federal government.
This is really set up with the way the government is
structured by the constitution.
The more jobs and such that a politician moves to the state,
the better for that state, but not necessarily the country, as
a whole.

This same type of crap happens on the local level. City officials
beg for companies to come and set up shop. They offer
incentives such as property tax breaks. The company
sets up shop, creates jobs, and everyone is happy.

Not quite... The people that have these new jobs are then
expected to bear the burden of living in that area. Schools,
county Hospitals, more police, firement, etc... cost money.
So when the local
entities come looking for money they come to the tax payer
who gripes to high heaven. The workers complain the police
dont arrive fast enough, the school does a bad job, ...
Or that they have to drive
20 miles to find a proper hospital. Meanwhile the company
and the shareholders are more than happy. Their profits
increase even more, they have no property taxes to pay.

Well wtf do the workers expect? You came, you found a job,
and now you complain about the local government not doing the
job while stripping you of money. There aint enough govt.
money. And there never will be. That company is tax exempt.
The companies execs dont live in that community. Has
happened numerous times here. Meanwhile the local officials
that made that deal in the first place... Surprisingly you come
to find out they made money on the deal also.

So yes power/money does corrupt in many ways.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

You can move to Montana, for God's sake!

No, I'm not giving the state to them. When it hits people hard enough in the pocket, then Americans will start caring about their citizenship rights, and stop allowing them to be given away to every low-life who thinks it's cool to breed like rabbits. The time is getting closer. We will stop them from turning the state into the sht hole they came from, but only when people feel the financial pressure from it(which is right about now.)

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Demand for govt services is not the problem.

It is in California, and anywhere else illegals come breed their litters. It's not cheap to school their kids, and it isn't made up for by what lil taxes they pay. It's a great deal for businesses getting tax breaks to come set up a business somewhere, but the rest of us have to pay for the services their poorly paid help use. Bush ignored it. Oba is ignoring it. We need to stop these people from turning states into the sht holes they came from.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

It is in California, and anywhere else illegals come breed their litters. It's not cheap to school their kids, and it isn't made up for by what lil taxes they pay. It's a great deal for businesses getting tax breaks to come set up a business somewhere, but the rest of us have to pay for the services their poorly paid help use. Bush ignored it. Oba is ignoring it. We need to stop these people from turning states into the sht holes they came from.

Illegal aliens are hardly the main reason that CA is broke. Unfortunately it looks like the CA spend and tax method has been adopted by the Federal govt.

And business are LEAVING CA faster than they are coming. There is very little tax incentive (none?) to start or move a business to CA.

[hurricanefrank]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Govt is supposed to govern the people, enforce the laws, keep them safe, provide and maintain infrastructure, deal with foreign govts, etc. They arent designed or intended to be wealth distribution entities. Going down this road is scary. The same address is communism, socialism and dictatorships. While it is only a first step, taking money one segment and basically giving it to another causes major ripples in the pool which ultimately will reflect poorly on the vaunted "middle class".

Chuck I concur with you 100%. My prior post was strictly an observation. It's maddening to read what the Constitution states the duties of government are vs the leviathan into which government has evolved.