Santa Anita Injuries; Trainers meet, complain

[King Glorious]

I wonder if I'm alone in finding it quite funny that they billed this stuff as all weather and said it doesn't need maintenance but Pearse says that's ridiculous now. He says they have to develop a different maintenance plan for the winter than they do for the summer. He says that he thinks the winter weather and the high volume of traffic on the course are what's causing the problems. I think this is incredible. Did they not know winter was coming? Did they not know that SA was one of the most heavily used courses in the world? How can this not have been planned for?

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I wonder if I'm alone in finding it quite funny that they billed this stuff as all weather and said it doesn't need maintenance but Pearse says that's ridiculous now. He says they have to develop a different maintenance plan for the winter than they do for the summer. He says that he thinks the winter weather and the high volume of traffic on the course are what's causing the problems. I think this is incredible. Did they not know winter was coming? Did they not know that SA was one of the most heavily used courses in the world? How can this not have been planned for?

this is what happens when people rush off into decisions without doing the proper research....this never would have happened if 18 horses did not breakdown over 43 days at del mar a couple years back.

[theiman]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

this is what happens when people rush off into decisions without doing the proper research....this never would have happened if 18 horses did not breakdown over 43 days at del mar a couple years back.

Good point.

Now if we can add 1 + 1 what do we get.

18 horses broke down at DM a few years back--on a "dirt" surface.

horses are continuing to breakdown on a "synthetic' surface.

Answer---Maybe it has nothing to do with the track and everything to do with whats put inside the horses that have dramatically dropped the number of starts the T-Bred makes in a career and have made them more injury prone and brittle.

The same horseman that were bitching about the DM dirt are bitching about the SA proride. At least they are consistent that they dont want the blame but would rather blame someone or something else.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by theiman

Good point.

Now if we can add 1 + 1 what do we get.

18 horses broke down at DM a few years back--on a "dirt" surface.

horses are continuing to breakdown on a "synthetic' surface.

Answer---Maybe it has nothing to do with the track and everything to do with whats put inside the horses that have dramatically dropped the number of starts the T-Bred makes in a career and have made them more injury prone and brittle.

The same horseman that were bitching about the DM dirt are bitching about the SA proride. At least they are consistent that they dont want the blame but would rather blame someone or something else.

Or maybe in the good old days just as many horses broke down as now but because no one was really paying attention to it no one bothered counting...

[sumitas]

according to tbredtimes 1,500 train over the main SA track every morning.

"Some of you must have a case of amnesia," said trainer David Hoffmans, an advocate of synthetic surfaces, referring to all the fatalities and injuries on dirt.

http://thoroughbredtimes.com/nationa...c-surface.aspx

[sumitas]

Turfway is doing their due diligence research on their poly surface as well .

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/48705.htm

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Or maybe in the good old days just as many horses broke down as now but because no one was really paying attention to it no one bothered counting...

[Danzig]

Vienna later stated, “After this meeting, I have no confidence that Ian Pearse can fix this track. Trainers don’t want to drive off owners by saying these tracks are no good, but the problems we had with dirt tracks haven’t been cured. We still have the disease, just with different injuries. The trajectory of these synthetic surfaces is they get worse over time.”

Extra maintenance may not necessarily work on Santa Anita’s surface, because, trainers say, the harrowing equipment tends to break up the track’s ingredients.

“They are going to try and manipulate the track to make it work,” said Vienna. “We should be planning to put in a better one; doing the groundwork to find out what works and is sustainable. Synthetic surfaces are not sustainable.”



it's not as tho these surfaces can be completely changed out year to year. the cost would be astronomical. things is, these synthetics work overseas--has anyone bothered to compare the amount of runners a day over there to the amounts over here? i bet they don't compare. we all know that euros mostly run on turf, that most of their turf meets are short, as a turf course can't survive a lot of racing. i think the sheer volume here is the main problem with these tracks. they aren't maintainable, they have too much traffic on them to last for very long.
it's a huge mess.

and i also think cannon has a point. only in the last few years have people paid much attention to injuries/fatalities. i wonder if the %'s have changed over the years.

[Left Bank]

Put the dirt back but keep the drainage system installed underneath.That shouldn't cost much.

[pick4]

An unfortunate thing about horse racing is sometimes horses breakdown.
Sometimes they happen because a horse has a injury that the trainer can detect prior to running the horse. Sometimes a horse just takes a bad step.

I think once there is large enough of a sample size on synthetics, the breakdown numbers will be very close to what they are on dirt tracks.

[Danzig]

perhaps santa anita and golden gate need to look at hollywood park and del mars surfaces. i think hollywood has had no trouble at all, and del mar apparently got their surface figured out.

[Cannon Shell]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/nat...-injuries.aspx

They best line was they are sending soil samples out to be tested. For what exactly? Unsafe soil traces? CSI Fairgrounds?

[FGFan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/nat...-injuries.aspx

They best line was they are sending soil samples out to be tested. For what exactly? Unsafe soil traces? CSI Fairgrounds?

That is kinda funny CSI Fairgrounds, but at least they are doing something.
It is a very high amount of fatalities here.
I do know this the breakdowns are occuring in the same area. I also noticed the other day that the track stayed very, very wet which is unusual, there wasn't that much rain and it normally dries out really quickly. Puzzling...Bob Fortus article says the new track supervisor went and checked the area and said it was just a freak thing...freak thing to me is that it was in the exact same spot, seems to me they should really be checking that area out. Maybe the snow changed the surface.
I'm going today and going to ask on the backside what they really are thinking.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Kimmeastar

Put the dirt back but keep the drainage system installed underneath.That shouldn't cost much.

And bar toe grabs.

[Cannon Shell]

I guess the evil toe grabs have to go again...


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ike-at-turfway

As I have stated here before, all the hand wringing over breakdown rates and trying to determine the causes is a huge waste of time. Turfway this winter is a great example. First there were alot of breakdowns compared to previous years, then there werent hardly any, now there are a lot again. let me guess that March there wont be many...

They are trying to find the magic bullet, toe grabs, surfaces, medication, vet checks, whips, etc. There is none. Why they continue to publicize this information is beyond me.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

What kind of shoes do you like using on your horses and why do they work so much better on off tracks?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

What kind of shoes do you like using on your horses and why do they work so much better on off tracks?

Horse shoes.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Horse shoes.

Don't make me ask Slewis from PA.

[Riot]

As I have stated here before, all the hand wringing over breakdown rates and trying to determine the causes is a huge waste of time

Thankfully, from a sportsmedicine standpoint, the minority opinion.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Thankfully, from a sportsmedicine standpoint, the minority opinion.

Yeah well sports medicine hasn't done a whole hell of a lot to change breakdown rates over the years. If you cant see that publishing monthly breakdown rates is a waste of time and leads people to draw completely unfounded conclusions that that is your cross to bear. Simply releasing data can do nothing but further confuse the issue.