Breakdowns on Big days

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't know that it's more, or less. there are more small days than big days, so i guess there would be more on small days...just because of the #'s involved. you'd also think that big horses would be taken care of better than the other horses, so they'd have less breakdowns. but they'd also get more coverage.
i just think, based on the fact that about 80% of the horses being raced are claimers, that they would also have more of the injuries-but less of the press.

What? I'm talking frequency, not # of breakdowns. Of course there are more breakdowns on ****ing small days.

[eajinabi]

Does souping up the track make it better? To me it offers a bias like in 2006 BC where the rail was like a conveyer belt.

Ever wonder why horses hardly break down on turf on big days? Because the track superintendent cant do anything to soup it up.

[ddthetide]

would we be having the same discussion had EB gone down on Oaks day?
would EB run any less hard chasing or matching strides with Proud Spell?
someone mentioned the synthetic surface, instead of having dirt tracks faster on big days, keep the softer, deeper, slower ALL the time. it has to be safer?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

would we be having the same discussion had EB gone down on Oaks day?
would EB run any less hard chasing or matching strides with Proud Spell?
someone mentioned the synthetic surface, instead of having dirt tracks faster on big days, keep the softer, deeper, slower ALL the time. it has to be safer?

Darren -

We'd be having the same discussion when the next horse invariably went down on Derby or Oaks or BC Day at Churchill. Four breakdowns in five days doesn't seem like a coincidence.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

What? I'm talking frequency, not # of breakdowns. Of course there are more breakdowns on ****ing small days.

oh...well damn joey, forgive me for not reading between the lines and understanding that when you said 'more' that you meant frequency and not number of.

[eajinabi]

I never understood the purpose of sythetic tracks for racing.
Horses spend more time training so they should develop training tracks that are synthetic

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What about horses like Teufelsberg that break down on synthetic surfaces? Horses break down, it's the unfortunate part of our game, but they will break down no matter the surface.

That sums it up and this discussion will start again the next time it happens on national tv.....don't wanna sound insensitive, but time to move on.

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I never understood the purpose of sythetic tracks for racing.

Less days washed or frozen out for the track.
Santa Anita of course has reversed this supposed
advantage.

[ArlJim78]

the thing about Eight Belles breakdown is that to me it looked to have nothing to do with the surface. from watching the overhead she suddenly slows dramatically and looks to start falling forward, like a collapse. as she falls she tries to catch herself but her legs get caught in an ackward position causing the injuries. to me it makes more sense because its hard to see how a bad step, etc, injures both legs at such a slow speed.

[Danzig]

i've heard of horses getting injured during a routine gallop in the morning, i can see that it would happen after a race during the gallop out as well. just because it's rare doesn't mean it can't happen.
i believe what a song broke both legs during a morning gallop. anyone who knows horses, or has been around them, knows they can suffer some weird injuries that you wouldn't think could happen.
hell, look at st liam at the farm. just walking, gets antsy and ends up falling and breaking his upper leg. a horse a few years ago lost his balance after breeding and broke one of his withers. when had anyone ever heard of that before? i hadn't.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

That sums it up and this discussion will start again the next time it happens on national tv.....don't wanna sound insensitive, but time to move on.

I have to tell you that I find it really irritating when someone comes on and tells everyone to move on, times up. says who? what should we move on to?
how about letting everyone decide for themselves when they've had enough?

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I have to tell you that I find it really irritating when someone comes on and tells everyone to move on, times up. says who? what should we move on to?
how about letting everyone decide for themselves when they've had enough?

Sorry dude...didn't mean anything by it.

I know about losing someone suddenly also, so I see your point.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

the thing about Eight Belles breakdown is that to me it looked to have nothing to do with the surface. from watching the overhead she suddenly slows dramatically and looks to start falling forward, like a collapse. as she falls she tries to catch herself but her legs get caught in an ackward position causing the injuries. to me it makes more sense because its hard to see how a bad step, etc, injures both legs at such a slow speed.

On the Big Brown isolated stretch run, Eight Belles bobbled, not particularly dramatically, but noticeably nonetheless with a furlong to go. She immediately bore in towards the rail and practically leaned against it the length of the stretch. Just nearing the wire she bobbled again before going out of view.

In all likelihood she suffered both injuries during the race. On the gallop out, when the riders typically give their mounts "their heads", I would imagine the lax and uncollected strides she was taking on already injured limbs resulted in further, irreparable damage.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I fail to see the coincidence. Chelokee has had a career of injuries and took a bad step. Eight belles had one of the most severe form and figure reversals you will see. Maybe that is the coincidence.....

Just seems interesting, considering the constant complaints about the highways Churchill creates on its big days.

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

On the Big Brown isolated stretch run, Eight Belles bobbled, not particularly dramatically, but noticeably nonetheless with a furlong to go. She immediately bore in towards the rail and practically leaned against it the length of the stretch. Just nearing the wire she bobbled again before going out of view.

In all likelihood she suffered both injuries during the race. On the gallop out, when the riders typically give their mounts "their heads", I would imagine the lax and uncollected strides she was taking on already injured limbs resulted in further, irreparable damage.

I saw what you are talking about.

But I find it very difficult to pin it down like that.
Did ligaments get little tears, or tendons, or bones already spliced
and just split all the way? Lots of little bones and
connective tissue down there. I think thats very difficult to say.

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

the thing about Eight Belles breakdown is that to me it looked to have nothing to do with the surface. from watching the overhead she suddenly slows dramatically and looks to start falling forward, like a collapse. as she falls she tries to catch herself but her legs get caught in an ackward position causing the injuries. to me it makes more sense because its hard to see how a bad step, etc, injures both legs at such a slow speed.

i just watched a couple times. i agree with you. it looks more she was collapsing from being tired and tried too catch herself.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Did ligaments get little tears, or tendons, or bones already spliced
and just split all the way.

That's pretty much the gist of it. Certainly if she was pulled up midstretch she wouldn't have the same catastrophic injuries she had past the wire...but I would bet that she would have had some detectable injury (-ies), likely at least one 'hairline' (ie incomplete) ankle fracture. Most race-related injuries are the result of cumulative trauma (and this would include before the race, too), not single bad steps.

By the way, I'm not trying to say the jockey should have pulled her up. Just making a case for the initial injuries to have occurred before the gallop out.

[Benny Leger]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

the thing about Eight Belles breakdown is that to me it looked to have nothing to do with the surface. from watching the overhead she suddenly slows dramatically and looks to start falling forward, like a collapse. as she falls she tries to catch herself but her legs get caught in an ackward position causing the injuries. to me it makes more sense because its hard to see how a bad step, etc, injures both legs at such a slow speed.

Totally agree with your perspective Jim. I think the fractures occured after she collapsed, for whatever reason. Very sad. Also agree with Deb. It's a sick part of the sport I try not to think about.

[cowgirlintexas]

Has the jockey said anything about it yet? I have'nt seen an article anywhere..

[eajinabi]

Probably doesn't speak english