Things I've heard and seen so far up here

Was out Saturday night and spoke with a few trainers and a jocks agent at dinner.
Polytrack- trainers both said they hated it, thought it was phony and that it would "ruin" racing. Jock agent of a very good jock said his jock hated riding on it because the stuff flies back and hits him and that you can't tell how much horse you have during a race. Said jock says you think you have a handful and go to ask your mount and he stops and sometimes you think you are totally beaten and all of a sudden the horse grinds away at the leaders. Said that tracks like Keeneland would be better served by just putting a new safe dirt surface.

Pletcher/Sheikh dominance- trainer I know for a long time said its bad for racing to have these camps dominating everything. Said owners are losing heart and dreams that they can win big races because its such an uphill fight.

Henny Hughes- trainer I know who saw the work and has a top sprinter says he saw Henny's work and that he is a GOOD horse spoken in awe.

Gomez- amazing that I sit at a table with two top trainers who ride the guy and a sharp jocks agent and without my prodding them to say it they come out and say exactly what I rail on about on this forum. All three said he gives some of the greatest rides they ever saw and then gives some that make you ask what the hell the guy is doing out there. None of the three can understand it and said they have never seen anything like it.

Gulfstream- A top trainer said in these words " that place is just awful, its the only place you get to run against horses like Bandini for a 30 grand purse". Trainer says that this year hes thinking about going to Santa Anita this winter instead. Said the cheap races are never ending and the only good races they write are so cheap in purse money as to be laughable. Jock agent of a MAJOR jock said he had the opportunity to go there last winter and ride first call for a dominant trainer and regrets not going and may this winter. Said the small purses make it hard to earn any real money and that great jocks arent all that interested in riding 5 cheap claimers a day.

[Habersham000]

Very interesting stuff oracle...thanks for posting

The money at gulfstream will change completely once they get slots in their. The purses will be huge.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Was out Saturday night and spoke with a few trainers and a jocks agent at dinner.
Polytrack- trainers both said they hated it, thought it was phony and that it would "ruin" racing. Jock agent of a very good jock said his jock hated riding on it because the stuff flies back and hits him and that you can't tell how much horse you have during a race. Said jock says you think you have a handful and go to ask your mount and he stops and sometimes you think you are totally beaten and all of a sudden the horse grinds away at the leaders. Said that tracks like Keeneland would be better served by just putting a new safe dirt surface.

Pletcher/Sheikh dominance- trainer I know for a long time said its bad for racing to have these camps dominating everything. Said owners are losing heart and dreams that they can win big races because its such an uphill fight.

Henny Hughes- trainer I know who saw the work and has a top sprinter says he saw Henny's work and that he is a GOOD horse spoken in awe.

Gomez- amazing that I sit at a table with two top trainers who ride the guy and a sharp jocks agent and without my prodding them to say it they come out and say exactly what I rail on about on this forum. All three said he gives some of the greatest rides they ever saw and then gives some that make you ask what the hell the guy is doing out there. None of the three can understand it and said they have never seen anything like it.

Gulfstream- A top trainer said in these words " that place is just awful, its the only place you get to run against horses like Bandini for a 30 grand purse". Trainer says that this year hes thinking about going to Santa Anita this winter instead. Said the cheap races are never ending and the only good races they write are so cheap in purse money as to be laughable. Jock agent of a MAJOR jock said he had the opportunity to go there last winter and ride first call for a dominant trainer and regrets not going and may this winter. Said the small purses make it hard to earn any real money and that great jocks arent all that interested in riding 5 cheap claimers a day.

LOL @ Oracle he said she said blah blah. I love how everything you say that people have said seem to agree with what you think. I sat at the table and had dinner in Louisville and spoke with 3 trainers and 1 owners and this is what they say

1) PolyTrack is good for racing once they learn to control the kickback. Trainers love it because it keeps their horses more sound and keeps their insurance costs down.

2) Gomez is a great rider. I would put him on any mount. He makes good judgements and he gives you 100% each time. This is why he is one of the top 3 jocks in the nation.

Wow--look, I can do that same thing--lol. Laughable Oracle, you are laughable at times. Great judgement of flesh and handicapping, but sometimes you make me laugh.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

"He makes good judgements........."



In your f'n mind somebody said that.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

"He makes good judgements........."



In your f'n mind somebody said that.

Huh? I dont get what you just said.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

LOL @ Oracle he said she said blah blah. I love how everything you say that people have said seem to agree with what you think. I sat at the table and had dinner in Louisville and spoke with 3 trainers and 1 owners and this is what they say

1) PolyTrack is good for racing once they learn to control the kickback. Trainers love it because it keeps their horses more sound and keeps their insurance costs down.

2) Gomez is a great rider. I would put him on any mount. He makes good judgements and he gives you 100% each time. This is why he is one of the top 3 jocks in the nation.

Wow--look, I can do that same thing--lol. Laughable Oracle, you are laughable at times. Great judgement of flesh and handicapping, but sometimes you make me laugh.

Well I guess you would know more than guys who have won eclipses with horses and book mounts for a very leading rider, and no I'm not gonna name names.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Huh? I dont get what you just said.

Somebody said he makes great judgements? I don't think you heard that.It's fiction.He gives 100%.I can see somebody saying that.Rats give a hundred percent when they are tearing up the inside of a wall though.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

LOL @ Oracle he said she said blah blah. I love how everything you say that people have said seem to agree with what you think. I sat at the table and had dinner in Louisville and spoke with 3 trainers and 1 owners and this is what they say

1) PolyTrack is good for racing once they learn to control the kickback. Trainers love it because it keeps their horses more sound and keeps their insurance costs down.

2) Gomez is a great rider. I would put him on any mount. He makes good judgements and he gives you 100% each time. This is why he is one of the top 3 jocks in the nation.

Wow--look, I can do that same thing--lol. Laughable Oracle, you are laughable at times. Great judgement of flesh and handicapping, but sometimes you make me laugh.

And if you think I made that stuff up you really are insane. You are the one who is laughable.
1) You say once they control the kickback, well they havn't yet and the agent said his guy hates the stuff that flies back and hits him in the face and chest. I don't see laughable there, you reinforce his point with your rebuttal.
2) They didnt say he wasnt a great rider. Since two of the guys at the table have ridden him and had specific races that they spoke about in which they had no idea why he did what he did, I'd say they have a better feel for the situation than myself or yourself. Nothing laughable there.

I simply posted what a few people who are real players in the game said over dinner without my revealing exactly who they were. I thought folks may find it interesting to hear what SOME folks in the game think. I'm sure that theer are many folks in the game who think otherwise on these topics.
You are certainly invited to take a trip up and adresss myself or these folks laughable. Just make sure you do it politely.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well I guess you would know more than guys who have won eclipses with horses and book mounts for a very leading rider, and no I'm not gonna name names.

I too have friends who have won eclipses etc etc. But until you can name names then leave this crap out. It is simply hearsay.

Originally Posted by oracle80

And if you think I made that stuff up you really are insane. You are the one who is laughable.
1) You say once they control the kickback, well they havn't yet and the agent said his guy hates the stuff that flies back and hits him in the face and chest. I don't see laughable there, you reinforce his point with your rebuttal.
2) They didnt say he wasnt a great rider. Since two of the guys at the table have ridden him and had specific races that they spoke about in which they had no idea why he did what he did, I'd say they have a better feel for the situation than myself or yourself. Nothing laughable there.

I simply posted what a few people who are real players in the game said over dinner without my revealing exactly who they were. I thought folks may find it interesting to hear what SOME folks in the game think. I'm sure that theer are many folks in the game who think otherwise on these topics.
You are certainly invited to take a trip up and adresss myself or these folks laughable. Just make sure you do it politely.

My post was tended to be laughed at since I was making fun of you. So since you think it was laughable then I will take that as a compliment. Until you name names and give specifics then it is hearsay and nothing more.

I simply posted what a few people who are real players in the game said over dinner without my revealing exactly who they were. I thought folks may find it interesting to hear what SOME folks in the game think. I'm sure that theer are many folks in the game who think otherwise on these topics.
You are certainly invited to take a trip up and adresss myself or these folks laughable. Just make sure you do it politely.

I will be up there next year. We are heading up to the Spa in the last week of July. I am hoping to catch the Baseball Hall of Fame inductions, catch some racing and enjoying the wonderful landscape. Hopefully cash a few tickets and have a good time.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I too have friends who have won eclipses etc etc. But until you can name names then leave this crap out. It is simply hearsay.

I very explicity said that it was hearsay. I don't see the point of your rebuttal. And if you want me or anyone here to believe you don't have a vested interest in polytrack you are fooling yoursel, not us. Everytime someone mentions this stuff in an adverse way you leap onto the board with vigor defending it. Quite frankly I find it hard to believe that anyone would have a love affair with ground up tires coated with wax who doesnt have a financial interest in it. So I post something folks may find of interest that I categorize as hearsay off the bat and you become so upset that you feel the need to call me laughable.
Tell you what bigshot, drag yourself up here and we can discuss laughable. Lets say at Sergio's over dinner. I'm buying.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I too have friends who have won eclipses etc etc. But until you can name names then leave this crap out. It is simply hearsay.

Do you guys still think this is not Kycherub?

Originally Posted by eurobounce

My post was tended to be laughed at since I was making fun of you. So since you think it was laughable then I will take that as a compliment. Until you name names and give specifics then it is hearsay and nothing more.

I will not name names and was pretty specific. You don't name people's names without their authorization, its not right. If they wanted their thoughts to be made public and attributed to them then they would do so. Its not my place to do this, or is it anyone elses. I laundered it enough that it could be just about anyone, and that was my intent. This is Ny, and people have honor about things like that. I guess I won't post anymore things like this and just avoid the trouble. Sorry your precious old tires were insulted.

Originally Posted by oracle80

I very explicity said that it was hearsay. I don't see the point of your rebuttal. And if you want me or anyone here to believe you don't have a vested interest in polytrack you are fooling yoursel, not us. Everytime someone mentions this stuff in an adverse way you leap onto the board with vigor defending it. Quite frankly I find it hard to believe that anyone would have a love affair with ground up tires coated with wax who doesnt have a financial interest in it. So I post something folks may find of interest that I categorize as hearsay off the bat and you become so upset that you feel the need to call me laughable.
Tell you what bigshot, drag yourself up here and we can discuss laughable. Lets say at Sergio's over dinner. I'm buying.

Actually my opinion on PolyTrack has changed greatly over the past 6 months. You have made some great points that made me do some research and I have actually changedmy mind a little. I think it is good to train on and I think it is good for Woodbine and those northern tracks. But I think you are correct in the form not transferring and the breeding going through a decline. There is a place for a synthetic surfaces and I think it should be the extreme excpetion rather than the norm.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I think they need to come up with an artificial substance that reacts more like dirt.That polytrack is like the stuff people take out of their vacuums.There has to be improvements to that stuff.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Actually my opinion on PolyTrack has changed greatly over the past 6 months. You have made some great points that made me do some research and I have actually changedmy mind a little. I think it is good to train on and I think it is good for Woodbine and those northern tracks. But I think you are correct in the form not transferring and the breeding going through a decline. There is a place for a synthetic surfaces and I think it should be the extreme excpetion rather than the norm.

I PERSONALLY don't ride or train horses and have never seen the stuff up close, therefore my opinion on the stuff is pretty much useless and invalid.
The reason I ask people who do train or ride on the stuff about it is because I think its fascinating to find out what they think about it because their opinion is very valid, far moreso than mine.
I had never really considered the riders point of view on it before to be honest with you. I guess I found that alarming. If the jocks(or a jock) say he cant tell if he has horse underneath him or not, that means that perhaps thats why the races on the stuff seem so strange. I mean, riders ride tactically based upon what they feel they have beneath them. A guy won't start asking his horse on the turn if he fells he has a handful of horse beneath him. I guess it never occurred to me that the jocks might find it confusing as well!!!! Seems obvious but having only been on a horse once in the third grade I'm not of the mindset to consider such things. I guess I thought others mind find that part interesting as I certainly did because I had never really even thought about that part of the puzzle. I mean I had read like you all did that the jocks didnt like the kickback, but I never had read that they couldnt tell what they had beneath them to judge pace and riding strategy.

[Seattleallstar]

I spoke to Todd Pletcher and he backed up what Oracle said

Originally Posted by oracle80

I PERSONALLY don't ride or train horses and have never seen the stuff up close, therefore my opinion on the stuff is pretty much useless and invalid.
The reason I ask people who do train or ride on the stuff about it is because I think its fascinating to find out what they think about it because their opinion is very valid, far moreso than mine.
I had never really considered the riders point of view on it before to be honest with you. I guess I found that alarming. If the jocks(or a jock) say he cant tell if he has horse underneath him or not, that means that perhaps thats why the races on the stuff seem so strange. I mean, riders ride tactically based upon what they feel they have beneath them. A guy won't start asking his horse on the turn if he fells he has a handful of horse beneath him. I guess it never occurred to me that the jocks might find it confusing as well!!!! Seems obvious but having only been on a horse once in the third grade I'm not of the mindset to consider such things. I guess I thought others mind find that part interesting as I certainly did because I had never really even thought about that part of the puzzle. I mean I had read like you all did that the jocks didnt like the kickback, but I never had read that they couldnt tell what they had beneath them to judge pace and riding strategy.

Well all I know is the jocks that ride regulary on the stuff love it. Lep likes it and he actually rode the horse i used to own part of. I think it is something a jock has to get used to before they can decide how to ride. Just like anything new, it will take some time to get used to.