Discreet Cat

The undefeated Discreet Cat, the same horse that beat up on Invasor worked this morning at Saratoga. I guess he may race afterall.

DISCREET CAT (KY) 1:02.74 b 7/20

Noticed that too....also noticed that Lawyer Ron wokred 5F today at CD too....Discreet Cat will probably run at the end of the Spa meet in an allowance race and then go onto BEL for the Jerome.....I think they want to point for the Discovery at AQU after that and then maybe the Clark at CD against older horses to close out the year.....from there, it would be obvious to guess that they would ship him back over seas to prepare a 4YO campiagn that would include a start in the Dubai World Cup - amybe against stabelmate Bernardini....

Of course, he has to hold up that long....LOL

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Noticed that too....also noticed that Lawyer Ron wokred 5F today at CD too....Discreet Cat will probably run at the end of the Spa meet in an allowance race and then go onto BEL for the Jerome.....I think they want to point for the Discovery at AQU after that and then maybe the Clark at CD against older horses to close out the year.....from there, it would be obvious to guess that they would ship him back over seas to prepare a 4YO campiagn that would include a start in the Dubai World Cup - amybe against stabelmate Bernardini....

Of course, he has to hold up that long....LOL

Wow you just named 5 future races for Discreet Cat! Don't you know that it would take this horse about 3-4 years to run in that many races!! LOL

Originally Posted by miraja2

Wow you just named 5 future races for Discreet Cat! Don't you know that it would take this horse about 3-4 years to run in that many races!! LOL

Thats what I was thinking as well. He ought to have 5 races under his belt by 2009.

Are we talking about Ghostzapper or Discreet Cat?

Originally Posted by boldruler

Are we talking about Ghostzapper or Discreet Cat?

Your lame attempts to poke fun at Ghostzapper are kinda dumb. The horse raced at 2,3,4, and 5. The fact that he had holes in there doesnt change the fact that he won impressively at all ages. He also won grade one's in three seasons. Find me many horses in recent years who did THAT. Good luck in your quest.
He won such races as the Vosburgh, Woodward, Met Mile, and Breeders Cup Classic. Those are grade one wins at 4 different distances. His sheet numbers were insane, the kind you just don't ever see. The fact that he had issues yet was able to race over that amount of time was a testament to his trainer's skill in handling him and his heart and desire to run fast and win. He also won at Santa Anita, Lone Star, Saratoga, Belmont, and Monmouth. He didn't need to take his track with him. Really, he had nothing to prove when he retired, he had proven everything he ever needed to prove.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Your lame attempts to poke fun at Ghostzapper are kinda dumb. The horse raced at 2,3,4, and 5. The fact that he had holes in there doesnt change the fact that he won impressively at all ages. He also won grade one's in three seasons. Find me many horses in recent years who did THAT. Good luck in your quest.
He won such races as the Vosburgh, Woodward, Met Mile, and Breeders Cup Classic. Those are grade one wins at 4 different distances. His sheet numbers were insane, the kind you just don't ever see. The fact that he had issues yet was able to race over that amount of time was a testament to his trainer's skill in handling him and his heart and desire to run fast and win. He also won at Santa Anita, Lone Star, Saratoga, Belmont, and Monmouth. He didn't need to take his track with him. Really, he had nothing to prove when he retired, he had proven everything he ever needed to prove.

No, at this point in time in his career at age 3 Ghostzapper had done nothing compared to Discreet Cat. Discreet Cat is 3-3 and completely destroyed the #2 rated older horse in america. Ghostzapper didn't even win the Kings Bishop at this time in his career. He finished third.

Ghostzapper raced

2x in 2002
4x in 2003
4x in 2004
1x in 2005

That is a complete joke. That is an average of 2.75 starts a year. 2.75 starts! The triple crown horses run more times than that in a 5 week period. You can't be a great horse with his record. That is ridiculous to classify him as great.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Your lame attempts to poke fun at Ghostzapper are kinda dumb. The horse raced at 2,3,4, and 5. The fact that he had holes in there doesnt change the fact that he won impressively at all ages. He also won grade one's in three seasons. Find me many horses in recent years who did THAT. Good luck in your quest.
He won such races as the Vosburgh, Woodward, Met Mile, and Breeders Cup Classic. Those are grade one wins at 4 different distances. His sheet numbers were insane, the kind you just don't ever see. The fact that he had issues yet was able to race over that amount of time was a testament to his trainer's skill in handling him and his heart and desire to run fast and win. He also won at Santa Anita, Lone Star, Saratoga, Belmont, and Monmouth. He didn't need to take his track with him. Really, he had nothing to prove when he retired, he had proven everything he ever needed to prove.

Just to answer a question.

Cigar won Grade I's at 4-5-6
Silver Charm won Grade I's at 3-4-5


Those two are the only ones that come to mind.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Just to answer a question.

Cigar won Grade I's at 4-5-6
Silver Charm won Grade I's at 3-4-5


Those two are the only ones that come to mind.

Cigar won more races in a row than Ghostzapper raced in over a 4yr career. A lot more.

Originally Posted by boldruler

No, at this point in time in his career at age 3 Ghostzapper had done nothing compared to Discreet Cat. Discreet Cat is 3-3 and completely destroyed the #2 rated older horse in america. Ghostzapper didn't even win the Kings Bishop at this time in his career. He finished third.

Ghostzapper raced

2x in 2002
4x in 2003
4x in 2004
1x in 2005

That is a complete joke. That is an average of 2.75 starts a year. 2.75 starts! The triple crown horses run more times than that in a 5 week period. You can't be a great horse with his record. That is ridiculous to classify him as great.

I dont know if you could define GREAT in Ghostzapper's case by the number of races he raced in. I think going by the quality of wins is a better indicator. Not to mention, he was winning all these races all layoffs which is even more impressive to me. I think I would say that Zapper was a great horse based on what he won and who he beat and his sheet numbers.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Just to answer a question.

Cigar won Grade I's at 4-5-6
Silver Charm won Grade I's at 3-4-5


Those two are the only ones that come to mind.

John Henry.

At 2:
WON Lafayette Futurity
At 3:
WON Round Table H. -G3, Chocolatetown H.; 2ND Lexington H. -G2, Hill Prince H.; 3RD Volante H. -G3, Lamplighter H. -G3
At 4:
WON Henry P. Russell H.; 2ND Bay Meadows H., Carleton F. Burke H. -G2, Sword Dancer S., Sunrise H.
At 5:
WON Hollywood Inv. H. -G1, San Juan Capistrano Inv. H. -G1, Oak Tree Inv. H. -G1, San Luis Rey S. -G1, Hialeah Turf Cup H. -G2, Brighton Beach H. -G3, San Marcos H. -G3, San Gabriel H. -G3; 2ND Jockey Club Gold Cup -G1, Sword Dancer S., Bowling Green H. -G2; 3RD Turf Classic Inv. H. -G1
At 6:
WON Arlington Million Inv., Jockey Club Gold Cup S. -G1, Santa Anita H. -G1, Oak Tree Inv. S. -G1, Hollywood Inv. H. -G1, Sword Dancer S. -G3, San Luis Rey S. -G1, San Luis Obispo H. -G2
At 7:
WON Santa Anita H. -G1 (500,000), Oak Tree Inv. H. -G1; 3RD Meadowlands Cup H. -G2, San Luis Rey S. -G1
At 8:
WON Hollywood Inv. Turf Cup H. -G1, American H. -G2; 2ND Budweiser Million -G1, Oak Tree Inv. S. -G1
At 9:
WON Budweiser Million S. -G1, Turf Classic S. -G1, Ballantine's Scotch Classic H., Hollywood Inv. H. -G1, Golden Gate H. -G3, Sunset H. -G1; 2ND Hollywood Gold Cup H. -G1; 3RD San Luis Rey S. -G1

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I dont know if you could define GREAT in Ghostzapper's case by the number of races he raced in. I think going by the quality of wins is a better indicator. Not to mention, he was winning all these races all layoffs which is even more impressive to me. I think I would say that Zapper was a great horse based on what he won and who he beat and his sheet numbers.

I would definitely agree that he was a great horse. Well said. I agree completely.

John Henry was a great. His career makes Ghostzapper look like a joke.

Ghostzapper raced 11x in 4 seasons.

John Henry 83 starts, 39 wins, 15 seconds, and 9 thirds.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by boldruler

John Henry was a great. His career makes Ghostzapper look like a joke.

Ghostzapper raced 11x in 4 seasons.

John Henry 83 starts, 39 wins, 15 seconds, and 9 thirds.

Let's not forget Easy Goer either... who won grade 1's at 2, 3 and 4 years of age.

[Unbridled]

Originally Posted by boldruler

You can't be a great horse with his record. That is ridiculous to classify him as great..................

John Henry was a great. His career makes Ghostzapper look like a joke.

Ghostzapper raced 11x in 4 seasons.

John Henry 83 starts, 39 wins, 15 seconds, and 9 thirds.

Bold, seriously, you gotta think about your arguments some. You classify Bernardini as great off of his 114 beyer. the zapper repeatedly ran 120+ beyers and negative Rags and had enough speed to win sprints and races at the classic distance. how is he not great? John Henry was a GELDING, thus no breeding value so they kept running him. Might as well compare John Henry to Eclipse, makes about as much sense as comparing Ghostzapper to John Henry. Find a tape of his last race in the Met Mile-one of the most impressive efforts by any horse in the past 25 years.

Originally Posted by Unbridled

Bold, seriously, you gotta think about your arguments some. You classify Bernardini as great off of his 114 beyer. the zapper repeatedly ran 120+ beyers and negative Rags and had enough speed to win sprints and races at the classic distance. how is he not great? John Henry was a GELDING, thus no breeding value so they kept running him. Might as well compare John Henry to Eclipse, makes about as much sense as comparing Ghostzapper to John Henry. Find a tape of his last race in the Met Mile-one of the most impressive efforts by any horse in the past 25 years.

I classify Bernardini as great if he keeps doing what he is doing. He is a sound horse with a great motion and he has already raced 5x this year, more than GZ ran in any one given year, and he still has half a year to go. If Bernardini only ran 4x a year he couldn't be great. He still needs to win the Travers, JCGC and BCC to be considered great in my opinion, but unless he gets injured, I don't see anyway that doesn't happen. If things go as expected he will win 7 of 8 races, 4 grade 1's, and have beaten older horses in the BCC. His Beyers are misleading because he doesn't seem to be making any effort. Ghostzapper was always all out, that is why he could only get on the track 4x a year. Now if he doesn't do any of those he isn't great. However, he still might run as a 4yr old.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by boldruler

I classify Bernardini as great if he keeps doing what he is doing. He is a sound horse with a great motion and he has already raced 5x this year, more than GZ ran in any one given year, and he still has half a year to go. If Bernardini only ran 4x a year he couldn't be great. He still needs to win the Travers, JCGC and BCC to be considered great in my opinion, but unless he gets injured, I don't see anyway that doesn't happen. If things go as expected he will win 7 of 8 races, 4 grade 1's, and have beaten older horses in the BCC. His Beyers are misleading because he doesn't seem to be making any effort. Ghostzapper was always all out, that is why he could only get on the track 4x a year. Now if he doesn't do any of those he isn't great. However, he still might run as a 4yr old.

I have seen Frankel quoted on more than one occasion that just because a horse is doing things easy, it does not mean that the race does not take something out of them...I think he knows a thing or two about training...

Originally Posted by Pointg5

I have seen Frankel quoted on more than one occasion that just because a horse is doing things easy, it does not mean that the race does not take something out of them...I think he knows a thing or two about training...

Of course he does, but what do you expect from a guy whose best horse raced 2.7x a year. Why is it that great horses in the past used to be able to race 10-12x a year and now all of the sudden they can't race more than 2.7x/yr.

[Gauchos0522]

Real Quiet also won G1's at 2,3,4 just remembered he won the Hollywood Futurity...

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by boldruler

Of course he does, but what do you expect from a guy whose best horse raced 2.7x a year. Why is it that great horses in the past used to be able to race 10-12x a year and now all of the sudden they can't race more than 2.7x/yr.

it must have something to do with the training. years ago it would seem the horses would be jogged between starts, then go all out for the race. now the top horses are really tightened before a race. efforts that used to be races are now workouts...that's my guess.