Johan...

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

No clue, I don't care how much all these rich guys are making, just how much they are willing to spend.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pdrift1

snipe i see the mets are raiseing tix price by 20% when they move into thier new stadium. do you know how much the yanks are going to raise thiers? just curious if you have seen anything on it?

Probably 21 % so Hank can say they beat the Mets

[pmayjr]

Originally Posted by pdrift1

zito-7 years 126 mil
santana-6 years 150 mil

you have to admit there is going to be a difference, and the mets are cringeing at the thought of dealing this out, but have no choice,

santanas agent has them by the balls and after the collapse last year the mets fans want results. hes going to get more then zito is by far

I kinda disagree with this for 2 reasons-
1) the Mets know what they're getting into by making this trade
2) I wasn't naive to the fact that after the deal was all said and done- no matter what team he got traded to, or even if the Twins somehow retained him, that he's gonna be the 2nd highest paid player in baseball behind A-Rod.

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

I kinda disagree with this for 2 reasons-
1) the Mets know what they're getting into by making this trade
2) I wasn't naive to the fact that after the deal was all said and done- no matter what team he got traded to, or even if the Twins somehow retained him, that he's gonna be the 2nd highest paid player in baseball behind A-Rod.

thats what i was getting at. i thought all along he was getting more then zito. i knew the mets were going to have to cough up the highest price for any pitcher in mlb with this.but they do have a little less leverage then other teams due to the circumstances of the mets

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Probably 21 % so Hank can say they beat the Mets

if you want to see yankee stadium in its original look you gotta pay

[SniperSB23]

What the hell are the Mets considering Kyle Lohse for still? Actually what were they considering him for in the first place?

Looks like Santana wants $20 million this year while the Mets are offering less. So assuming Santana winds up with $20 million that would leave them with this:

Santana LHSP 20,000,000
Martinez RHSP 11,500,000
O Hernandez RHSP 6,500,000
Maine RHSP 400,000
Ol Perez LHSP 4,000,000
Pelfrey RHSP 1,800,000

Wagner LHRP 10,500,000
Heilman RHRP 1,200,000
Feliciano LHRP 750,000
Sanchez RHRP 850,000
Schoenweiss LHRP 3,600,000
Burgos RHRP 350,000
J Sosa RHLR 2,000,000
Wise RHRP 1,200,000

Schneider C 4,900,000
Castro C 2,100,000

Delgado 1B 12,000,000
Castillo 2B 7,000,000
Reyes SS 4,000,000
Wright 3B 5,000,000
Easley 2B 950,000

Church LF 400,000
Beltran CF 10,000,000
Alou RF 7,500,000
Chavez LF 1,800,000
Anderson, M 2B/OF 1,050,000


Total 121,350,000


Right around the target of $120 million and that actually includes 26 players.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

What the hell are the Mets considering Kyle Lohse for still? Actually what were they considering him for in the first place?

Maybe because they have 2 guys in the rotation who have no shot of making the season without some time off (Pedro and El Duque), one guy who is always close to coming apart at the seams(Perez), and one guy who is still a big question mark (Pelphrey)? Agree that Lohse is not a top starter but he does eat innings and is good enough to be a number 4 starter in the NL. That being said there is no way I'm giving him any long term deal at 10 mill a year.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pdrift1

if you want to see yankee stadium in its original look you gotta pay

Is there a time machine in the new stadium?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Maybe because they have 2 guys in the rotation who have no shot of making the season without some time off (Pedro and El Duque), one guy who is always close to coming apart at the seams(Perez), and one guy who is still a big question mark (Pelphrey)? Agree that Lohse is not a top starter but he does eat innings and is good enough to be a number 4 starter in the NL. That being said there is no way I'm giving him any long term deal at 10 mill a year.

I'd rather Pelfrey get some experience getting shelled than go with Lohse (and paying him a lot). I'd take an inning eater like Livan for cheap long before him. I don't even think Lohse would be much of an upgrade over Jorge Sosa. I agree that Hernandez and Pedro won't be healthy all season but they have seven guys that can start already if need be. If they want to add one more they should do it for cheap. Lieber went for 1 year $3.5 million to the Cubs. That is a heck of a lot better deal than a multiyear deal for Lohse.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I'd rather Pelfrey get some experience getting shelled than go with Lohse (and paying him a lot). I'd take an inning eater like Livan for cheap long before him. I don't even think Lohse would be much of an upgrade over Jorge Sosa. I agree that Hernandez and Pedro won't be healthy all season but they have seven guys that can start already if need be. If they want to add one more they should do it for cheap. Lieber went for 1 year $3.5 million to the Cubs. That is a heck of a lot better deal than a multiyear deal for Lohse.

Livan is completely finished. Loshe is not good but he is what he is. A 6 inning guy who will battle and give up about 3 runs an outing. He never misses a start and may wind up being effective out of the bullpen if everybody stays healthy. I agree that you dont want to get tied down to him for big money. But it is looking like he has very few options and may agree to a short term deal. He is better insurance than anyone else out there.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Livan is completely finished. Loshe is not good but he is what he is. A 6 inning guy who will battle and give up about 3 runs an outing. He never misses a start and may wind up being effective out of the bullpen if everybody stays healthy. I agree that you dont want to get tied down to him for big money. But it is looking like he has very few options and may agree to a short term deal. He is better insurance than anyone else out there.

A finished Livan still managed to put up just as good ERAs as Lohse the past two years and had a much better record. I agree that Livan will never be as good as he was but if he is available for one year and Lohse isn't then I think it is a much better deal for the Mets.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

A finished Livan still managed to put up just as good ERAs as Lohse the past two years and had a much better record. I agree that Livan will never be as good as he was but if he is available for one year and Lohse isn't then I think it is a much better deal for the Mets.

You know as well as I do that wins and losses are a poor measuring stick especially for middle of the road pitchers. Loshe was much better than Livan was last year.

Loshe- 192 innings 207 hits 57 bbs 122 k's 4.62 ERA hitters had a .279 avge against and .339 OBP

Livan- 204 Innings 247 hits 79 bbs 90 k's 4.93 era hitters batted .308 with a .371 OPB.

When you consider that Loshe played in Cincy and then Philly last year which are 2 stone cold hitters parks and considering that he played with an awful Cincy defense behind him for most of the year the edge is even greater. Livan used to K around 180 in a similar amount of innings, that drop is a horrible sign for a guy who allows as many hits as he does. He seems to be suffering from pitching 250 innings a year all these years. The Livan of 3 or 4 years ago is much better than Loshe ever was but he looks cooked.

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Is there a time machine in the new stadium?

yup thats what the boss says

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You know as well as I do that wins and losses are a poor measuring stick especially for middle of the road pitchers. Loshe was much better than Livan was last year.

Loshe- 192 innings 207 hits 57 bbs 122 k's 4.62 ERA hitters had a .279 avge against and .339 OBP

Livan- 204 Innings 247 hits 79 bbs 90 k's 4.93 era hitters batted .308 with a .371 OPB.

When you consider that Loshe played in Cincy and then Philly last year which are 2 stone cold hitters parks and considering that he played with an awful Cincy defense behind him for most of the year the edge is even greater. Livan used to K around 180 in a similar amount of innings, that drop is a horrible sign for a guy who allows as many hits as he does. He seems to be suffering from pitching 250 innings a year all these years. The Livan of 3 or 4 years ago is much better than Loshe ever was but he looks cooked.

When they are both pitching for a bad team then record is a bit more of a factor. Livan's K's were way down and his WHIP was horrible yet he still managed an ERA close to Lohse's. Regardless, it isn't who is better, it is what they will cost. And if Lohse wants a multi-year deal then I think they are far better off bringing in Livan to be insurance on a one year deal.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

When they are both pitching for a bad team then record is a bit more of a factor. Livan's K's were way down and his WHIP was horrible yet he still managed an ERA close to Lohse's. Regardless, it isn't who is better, it is what they will cost. And if Lohse wants a multi-year deal then I think they are far better off bringing in Livan to be insurance on a one year deal.

Maybe you missed the playoffs last year. The Diamondbacks were in them. Livan was a batting practice picher last year. If he came free they would be making a mistake.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Maybe you missed the playoffs last year. The Diamondbacks were in them. Livan was a batting practice picher last year. If he came free they would be making a mistake.

Didn't Lohse make like one playoff pitch and give up a grand slam effectively ending the Phillies?? He's horrible, but I guess playing in the minor league as the Mets are in he'll be ok.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Didn't Lohse make like one playoff pitch and give up a grand slam effectively ending the Phillies?? He's horrible, but I guess playing in the minor league as the Mets are in he'll be ok.

He isnt very good but pitching in Shea with a solid defense behind him will make him bearable.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Maybe you missed the playoffs last year. The Diamondbacks were in them. Livan was a batting practice picher last year. If he came free they would be making a mistake.

Everyone in the NL was horrible last year.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Everyone in the NL was horrible last year.

Livan was among the horribilist

[Cannon Shell]

The deal is done