Support grows for Belmont slot machines

[ShadowRoll]

[quote=MaTH716]

Originally Posted by ShadowRoll

I just think that slots, in the long run, won't save the sport against the other competition for the gambling dollar that you mention. And I don't want to see horse racing become a secondary interest at race tracks. Unless the racing product is promoted as something of value itself, then racetracks will simply turn into slots parlors, with less and less money dedicated to racing and, eventually, the replacement of racing altogether for the more profitable business of slots. Just imagine how many machines you could fit at Belmont if you paved over the track.

I don't think that you can look at it as secondary intrest. You are going to have people there for the slots and have people there for the horses. For the 5 hours that there is live racing, hopefully it will be promoted enough that some of the slot people might show an intrest and bet a few races. Maybe you will even get a few to become fans of the sport. The important thing is to get them to the venue. Bottom line is that all these people are GAMBLERS. Don't forget a lot of that older slot crowd are degenerate number players. So who is to say that before some of these people hit the slot room they go to the window and put in triples for every race. They want action too. They will never be fans of the sport or love it like people on this site, but they will be involved. Let's face it even the most die hard of fan doesn't want to go to Aqueduct in February. So if you could have another means of entertainment for people and money from that will be going into the pot to support the industry, what's wrong with that? You are not going to lose the segment of people that go to the track that loves racing to the slots. If anything they might stay longer or bring other people with them.

I believe that there is very little cross-over from slots players to horse players. For the most part, the type of people that enjoy pulling a handle (or pushing a button, nowadays) aren't the type of people who enjoy learning how to read and then interpreting the DRF.

But I'm not concerned about how many people might happen to look out the window of the slots parlor and notice that there's a race track outside (and then be intrigued enough to do something about it). I think this number is too low to make much of a difference. What I'm really concerened about is the track management, who see unbelieveable profit from the slots (at least for the moment, until everyone gets them and the competition causes profits to level off), and then see a sickly racing product that is marginally profitable at best. Without someone demanding that the racing aspect of the track not be forgotten, it will be the natural inclination to lessen, not increase, promotion of racing since the promotion money is better spent on the more successful product (i.e. slots). Money should be spent to get people to come to the race track for the express purpose of playing the races. It's simply too risky for the future of racing to hope that people who are there for the purpose of playing the slot machines might also try a bet on a horse race.

I used to work at an independent book store that was an icon in the town where I grew up. A new owner came in and saw that the office supply business and the gift business were far more profitable in terms of mark-up. Eventually, he phased out the books entirely (even though the word "bookstore" was part of the store's name). Finally, the store closed, and this icon, which was doing business in my home town years before I was born, was gone forever. By then, of course, it didn't matter -- the only thing that was interesting to me was the books, anyway.

Horse racing may not be a secondary interest at the tracks with slots at this point in time, but it could become so in the future, unless the slots money is reinvested into revitalizing an interest in the sport. Increased purses are all well and good, but it's the public who need to be wooed, not just the owners and trainers. Fat purses at the expense of increasing the allure of the racing product is a short-sighted road to disaster. It doesn't work to feed a select few while letting the masses starve. Unless your attitude is "let them eat cake."

[Danzig]

[quote=ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

[b][i]
I believe that there is very little cross-over from slots players to horse players. For the most part, the type of people that enjoy pulling a handle (or pushing a button, nowadays) aren't the type of people who enjoy learning how to read and then interpreting the DRF.

But I'm not concerned about how many people might happen to look out the window of the slots parlor and notice that there's a race track outside (and then be intrigued enough to do something about it). I think this number is too low to make much of a difference. What I'm really concerened about is the track management, who see unbelieveable profit from the slots (at least for the moment, until everyone gets them and the competition causes profits to level off), and then see a sickly racing product that is marginally profitable at best. Without someone demanding that the racing aspect of the track not be forgotten, it will be the natural inclination to lessen, not increase, promotion of racing since the promotion money is better spent on the more successful product (i.e. slots). Money should be spent to get people to come to the race track for the express purpose of playing the races. It's simply too risky for the future of racing to hope that people who are there for the purpose of playing the slot machines might also try a bet on a horse race.

I used to work at an independent book store that was an icon in the town where I grew up. A new owner came in and saw that the office supply business and the gift business were far more profitable in terms of mark-up. Eventually, he phased out the books entirely (even though the word "bookstore" was part of the store's name). Finally, the store closed, and this icon, which was doing business in my home town years before I was born, was gone forever. By then, of course, it didn't matter -- the only thing that was interesting to me was the books, anyway.

Horse racing may not be a secondary interest at the tracks with slots at this point in time, but it could become so in the future, unless the slots money is reinvested into revitalizing an interest in the sport. Increased purses are all well and good, but it's the public who need to be wooed, not just the owners and trainers. Fat purses at the expense of increasing the allure of the racing product is a short-sighted road to disaster. It doesn't work to feed a select few while letting the masses starve. Unless your attitude is "let them eat cake."

absolutely a track has to keep from marginalizing the racing, and itself as a reason for being. but i think racing finally needs to come to terms with the fact that it is indeed a gambling business first, a sport second. maybe it wasn't like that way back when, but things change. since it is a form of gambling, i don't see why it has to keep itself isolated, but instead should look at other gambling areas and see which would fit in with the racing. running a brief live racing season and hoping that is enough to keep it viable from year to year may no longer be enough.

casinos have a variety of ways to make money, tracks need to come up with other ways of adding to their bottom line as well. i don't think they need to look like casinos with a track attached, but a track with a few other betting areas available.

Originally Posted by Danzig

they'd have been shooed away by then, but they do come and peek sometimes...i usually keep my finger on the mouse wheel just in case, and thankfully i'm a fast reader and catch stuff (hopefully) before they do. of course they probably see/hear worse on the bus and at school!

Heck they've probably been to a rainbow party by now!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Heck they've probably been to a rainbow party by now!

....don't know what that is, but hopefully not! can imagine it's not a good thing since it's included in this conversation!

you forget, we live in the boonies. the high light of most kids around here is hanging out in the church parking lot after the football game.

[PSH]

After a absence of 25 years i returned to Belmont this past Friday (October 5th) and was amazed at how great the grand old race track looked. I was also amazed at how empty she was with a sprinkling of players for a terrible Friday card that started out with a field of 4 of which there was an entry....

It was strange in a way to be there and i could only think what a waste of a beautiful race track and huge space.... Something needs to be done and slots are an obvious answer to generate additional funds for the track and the owners...... I believe the only obstacle would be some of the residents in Floral Park......

It was amazing after almost 20 plus years of not being at Saratoga to see the transformation from an almost dead track (yes Saratoga was struggling) to what it has become today and on the opposite end at Belmont to a dying track today as far as attendence....

PSH

[MaTH716]

[quote=ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

[b][i]
I believe that there is very little cross-over from slots players to horse players. For the most part, the type of people that enjoy pulling a handle (or pushing a button, nowadays) aren't the type of people who enjoy learning how to read and then interpreting the DRF.

But I'm not concerned about how many people might happen to look out the window of the slots parlor and notice that there's a race track outside (and then be intrigued enough to do something about it). I think this number is too low to make much of a difference. What I'm really concerened about is the track management, who see unbelieveable profit from the slots (at least for the moment, until everyone gets them and the competition causes profits to level off), and then see a sickly racing product that is marginally profitable at best. Without someone demanding that the racing aspect of the track not be forgotten, it will be the natural inclination to lessen, not increase, promotion of racing since the promotion money is better spent on the more successful product (i.e. slots). Money should be spent to get people to come to the race track for the express purpose of playing the races. It's simply too risky for the future of racing to hope that people who are there for the purpose of playing the slot machines might also try a bet on a horse race.

I used to work at an independent book store that was an icon in the town where I grew up. A new owner came in and saw that the office supply business and the gift business were far more profitable in terms of mark-up. Eventually, he phased out the books entirely (even though the word "bookstore" was part of the store's name). Finally, the store closed, and this icon, which was doing business in my home town years before I was born, was gone forever. By then, of course, it didn't matter -- the only thing that was interesting to me was the books, anyway.

Horse racing may not be a secondary interest at the tracks with slots at this point in time, but it could become so in the future, unless the slots money is reinvested into revitalizing an interest in the sport. Increased purses are all well and good, but it's the public who need to be wooed, not just the owners and trainers. Fat purses at the expense of increasing the allure of the racing product is a short-sighted road to disaster. It doesn't work to feed a select few while letting the masses starve. Unless your attitude is "let them eat cake."

A main problem (that has been knocked around countless times on this site) is getting more people involved in racing and then getting them to the track. It just seems that there is no new young blood that is interested in the sport. So if you added slots, one of your problems about getting people to the track might be solved. Then you could cross promote the two things. Such as make sure you have restauraunts in the track where you could offer comps for the slot players. Give them a taste of horse racing, offer them free seminars on how to read the form and give them free copies. You are not going to lose the die hard horse players to the slots, but you have to try to take advantage of the slot players that are at the venue and might be able to be swayed to enjoy racing. I remember not knowing how to play craps, and then I was in Atlantic City one night and there was a teaching type of table that explained the in's and outs. Sure enough that night I ended up at a crap table. Even if I didn't play that night, I had that knowledge for future experiences.
As far as promotions go, they barely promote it now and there are no slots. They are going to promote the slots and they should, because that's where the infusion of money is going to come from. Would you spend millions of dollars on a buisness venture and then not promote it? It would be bad buisness. The key would be cross promotion. I understand what you are saying how it is going to be promoted that instead of them having slots at the race track it will be promoted like the slot parlor has horses. For the horse players the horses will be first, for the slot people the vice-versa.
I want to believe that the horse racing industry has too much vested and is profitable enough that they just wouldn't close up shop one day.

[Slewbopper]

Belmont is huge. I think they should install a full fledged casino on the ground floor, complete with shops and real restaurants and build a 2000 room hotel where the LIRR stop is, at the 1/4 pole with all rooms facing the track. There is still plenty of room for horse racing on the upper floors. For BC day they can install the bleachers on the apron, and for the Belmont they can open the infield like they do at churchill and Pimlico.

[Danzig]

i know i go to the track to spend money (and hopefully win some) and i never manage to find anything i want to buy in what passes for a shop at the tracks i've been to.

[Danzig]

i think they need to advertise big payouts and big carryovers ala powerball and its billboards. quit pretending gambling isn't a part of the sport, they need to quit trying to just play horse racing off as pageantry and beauty. come here, win big! they needed to play up the folks that hit the big pick 6 with a couple bucks a few months ago. let people know that they have a chance to win with something using more than just random luck and picking the right video poker machine. read the form, make an educated (maybe) guess. or just use your lucky numbers!

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The neighborhood around is a dump(Elmont) and them saying that NYRA has not been a good neighbor is laughable.

You are absolutely clueless and have no idea what you are talking about. Floral Park borders Belmont. There are million dollar homes just outside the fence of belmont's back parking area. Also, if you go out the back gate where the school is you are in Floral Park, where homes start at $500K.

Please get your head of of NYRA's butt. It is comical how people stick up for them all the time and then don't disclose their relationship with members of the group.

Who has more credibility, the people that live near the track, or the organization that is bankrupt and in years past was getting slapped around by the federal government? Remember the people that live in that neighborhood are the ones paying the taxes to bail out bankrupt groups like NYRA.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

You are absolutely clueless and have no idea what you are talking about. Floral Park borders Belmont. There are million dollar homes just outside the fence of belmont's back parking area. Also, if you go out the back gate where the school is you are in Floral Park, where homes start at $500K.

Please get your head of of NYRA's butt. It is comical how people stick up for them all the time and then don't disclose their relationship with members of the group.

Who has more credibility, the people that live near the track, or the organization that is bankrupt and in years past was getting slapped around by the federal government? Remember the people that live in that neighborhood are the ones paying the taxes to bail out bankrupt groups like NYRA.

These people that live in the neighborhood around Belmont have done nothing as a community to support Belmont. Things work both ways.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, people that see NYRA's side of the situation don't necessarily have their " head in NYRA's butt " as you suggest.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

These people that live in the neighborhood around Belmont have done nothing as a community to support Belmont. Things work both ways.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, people that see NYRA's side of the situation don't necessarily have their " head in NYRA's butt " as you suggest.

Question:
Why would it be the neighorhoods job to support NYRA? Other than pay high taxes.

Next Q:
What is NYRA's side anyway. How can anyone support the way NYRA managed the Franchise. Granted, they have made a big change to the good.

Believe me, I didn't like any of the responses above, but this one is confusing as all hell.

[viscount26]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why? Because Belmont's facility is so overutilized? Or the fact that Belmont is more easily accessable to about 2 million people who live on Long Island? Saratoga is one thing but Belmont is a morbuid, empty place 98% of the time.

Chuck,
If this happens, the LIRR might actually run more than 2 freaking trains in and 1 out after the last. Just ask Andy about that c**p

[blackthroatedwind]

I don't specifically think it is a neighborhood's responsibility. However, for them to voice all those complaints, when it is at least a two way street, is what I find ridiculous. NYRA contributes in tax dollars. If the surrounding community wanted to work with them, and NYRA refused them, I could understand the complaints better. That is simply not the case.

As for NYRA's management of the franchise....well I will say if the people that ran NYRA from the mid 90s until a couple years ago were still in charge then I would say that the group known as NYRA should not get the franchise. However, the management has undergone a complete turnover in the last few years, and the current people in charge ( Steve Duncker, Charlie Hayward and Jim Heffernan in particular ) have done a superb job in turning things around and have clearly shown they deserve a chance to continue to move forward....especially against the field they are currently competing against.

Just because they still carry the name of " NYRA " doesn't mean they are in any way responsible for the sins of the past.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

These people that live in the neighborhood around Belmont have done nothing as a community to support Belmont. Things work both ways.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, people that see NYRA's side of the situation don't necessarily have their " head in NYRA's butt " as you suggest.

First of all the people that live there pay ridiculous property taxes, which help bail out groups like NYRA when the state of NY bails them out.

As for the comment about having his head in NYRA's butt, what do you expect me to think. Anyone that has been to Belmont knows that there are some very expensive homes just outside of Belmont. To say the neighborhood around the track is a dump is hilarious. Part of it, like all racetracks is a bad neighborhood, but the facility is huge and the majority of it is surrounded by homes that start at $500k. Perhaps the people with nice homes get a little tired of the garbage and tickets that seem to never be cleaned up and blow all over the place.

I love NY racing and think NYRA is getting better, but a bankrupt group cuts corners and cleaning the area around belmont isn't exactly something NYRA put money into.

NYRA clearly doesn't give a crap about the surrounding community and if they put slots in there the neighborhood property values could easily tumble.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Just because they still carry the name of " NYRA " doesn't mean they are in any way responsible for the sins of the past.

I agree.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

First of all the people that live there pay ridiculous property taxes, which help bail out groups like NYRA when the state of NY bails them out.

As for the comment about having his head in NYRA's butt, what do you expect me to think. Anyone that has been to Belmont knows that there are some very expensive homes just outside of Belmont. To say the neighborhood around the track is a dump is hilarious. Part of it, like all racetracks is a bad neighborhood, but the facility is huge and the majority of it is surrounded by homes that start at $500k. Perhaps the people with nice homes get a little tired of the garbage and tickets that seem to never be cleaned up and blow all over the place.

I love NY racing and think NYRA is getting better, but a bankrupt group cuts corners and cleaning the area around belmont isn't exactly something NYRA put money into.

NYRA clearly doesn't give a crap about the surrounding community and if they put slots in there the neighborhood property values could easily tumble.

Out of curiosity who do you feel would do a better job in supporting the community and why? All of the bidders will want slots at Belmont and didn't either Excelsior or Empire say they weren't interested in the franchise any longer without them?

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Out of curiosity who do you feel would do a better job in supporting the community and why? All of the bidders will want slots at Belmont and didn't either Excelsior or Empire say they weren't interested in the franchise any longer without them?

NYRA could do it just fine. The problem with NY racing though is that they award franchises to non-profits for 30 years at a time and there is no accountability. Once NYRA gets the bid they don't have to listen to anyone. They will revert back to the same way they once did things because the process in NY is flawed. It is like giving teachers tenure and having no accountability, except most teachers get into the business to help children. The only reason people get involved with running non-profits like NYRA is to figure out ways to make money off of it.

Horse racing must be a for-profit entity. Sure there are problems with that, but you can't have non-profit entities running gambling operations. They don't have to answer to anyone.

[sumitas]

Horse racing could easily make a profit in NY if the state took out less. The answer is with the NYRA at least running the racing side of the business. These other private entities would just cut anything going to horse racing, jack up prices to customers as high as possible, and hide as much money as they could stuff in their pants, imo.

The NYRa will run horse racing in NY and it probably should partner with a group on the casino side of things.

Originally Posted by sumitas

Horse racing could easily make a profit in NY if the state took out less. The answer is with the NYRA at least running the racing side of the business. These other private entities would just cut anything going to horse racing, jack up prices to customers as high as possible, and hide as much money as they could stuff in their pants, imo.

The NYRa will run horse racing in NY and it probably should partner with a group on the casino side of things.

NYRA should run it. Just make the deal something like 5 years, not 30, which is a joke.