5/5: Churchill-Derby Day (Carryover)

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by on a suuny day

The Great Northern Dancer was foaled May 27th 1961

as was I, May 27th 1976

[golfer]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Cornelio cost us that race. One of the worst rides i've seen. Guy should be fined for not using the horse down the stretch.

I just got back from simulcast parlor, and was going to post about this race. How in hell did this horse get beat? With that trip, and being by far the fastest horse who wasn't scratched... Amazing! And don't ge me started about Garrett Bleeping Gomez What was he smoking today? His rides on Next Adventure in the 4th and Thorn Song in the 11th were freakin ponderous

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Inside appears best part of track through 5th.. Off-pace runners on outside struggling to cut into leads in these last four straight sprints.. With Derby the first two turn race on card, there will be no opportunity to see affect on routes, but expect those trying to swing out for the stretch drive in the feature will be hard pressed to catch leaders.. Additional thoughts?

As for this, I didn't see it, I thought it played fair today. As far as the rail bias, which I have seen SOME talk about regarding Street Sense, and this might be taken the wrong way but this race was alot of luck by him, more so that Hard Spun kept on going, if he fades not sure the Red Sea parts like it did. No disrespect to the horse because he is by far the best 3 year old today, by many lengths, but everything went this horse's way, ever hole opened when it needed to. I fully expect him to win the Preakness and depending on who goes to the Belmont, quite possibly the best candidate, breeding wise, since Barbaro, and a long time before that.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Scav

As for this, I didn't see it, I thought it played fair today. As far as the rail bias, which I have seen SOME talk about regarding Street Sense, and this might be taken the wrong way but this race was alot of luck by him, more so that Hard Spun kept on going, if he fades not sure the Red Sea parts like it did.

Tom, you're incorrect. As Branch Rickey wrote, 'Luck' is the residue of design...

After the press conference, Haskin and I walked to the backstretch ON THE RAIL. The path was like a paved highway compared to even the 2 path. From the 2 path out, the dirt was pockmarked 6-8 inches deep in spots. Any horse that was trying to rally wide at all was doomed to tire quickly. And all anyone has to do to understand Borel's approach is go back to watch his perfect workout last week and the La Troienne where he gave Helen Pitts' Silverinyourpocket the identical ride he gave Street Sense.

In the workout, the horse showed his tremendous agility hugging the rail through and out of the turn at a high rate of speed. In the Troienne, and later in the Derby, Borel allowed the field to clear before crossing over to get to the rail. From there, he knew in both cases he would have the best chance to rally taking the chance that the lane would be clear when he needed it to be. In Street Sesne's case, he knew he was on the best horse, and brilliantly anticipated having the path he needed clearing the last group before tackling Hard Spun.

Understand that luck isn't the right description of what happens in these cases. Knowing that horses in front of you have already been doing their running and are likely tiring, Borel regularly makes the correct assumption that those horses will begin to bear out, particularly off the turn. Since Street Sense is just doing his real running at that point, he is physically able to hug the rail while the leg-weary ahead of him float away from the inside straightening for the stretch drive.

Borel and Nafzger have known from early on that they were dealing with a special horse, and their approach to win this race since the day after the BC Juvenile was just about perfect. And most importantly, the best part of the Street Sense victory is the fact that this was a tremendous win for racing.. a victory for the forces of good.


(Heading back to the track shortly, but will address the wonderful Hard Spun try seperately in my wrapup, as I spent quite a bit of time with Rick Porter, Larry Jones and Mario Pino as well last night, and have great stuff about their day. They were rightly elated with their colt.)

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Tom, you're incorrect. As Branch Rickey wrote, 'Luck' is the residue of design...

After the press conference, Haskin and I walked to the backstretch ON THE RAIL. The path was like a paved highway compared to even the 2 path. From the 2 path out, the dirt was pockmarked 6-8 inches deep in spots. Any horse that was trying to rally wide at all was doomed to tire quickly. And all anyone has to do to understand Borel's approach is go back to watch his perfect workout last week and the La Troienne where he gave Helen Pitts' Silverinyourpocket the identical ride he gave Street Sense.

In the workout, the horse showed his tremendous agility hugging the rail through and out of the turn at a high rate of speed. In the Troienne, and later in the Derby, Borel allowed the field to clear before crossing over to get to the rail. From there, he knew in both cases he would have the best chance to rally taking the chance that the lane would be clear when he needed it to be. In Street Sesne's case, he knew he was on the best horse, and brilliantly anticipated having the path he needed clearing the last group before tackling Hard Spun.

Understand that luck isn't the right description of what happens in these cases. Knowing that horses in front of you have already been doing their running and are likely tiring, Borel regularly makes the correct assumption that those horses will begin to bear out, particularly off the turn. Since Street Sense is just doing his real running at that point, he is physically able to hug the rail while the leg-weary ahead of him float away from the inside straightening for the stretch drive.

Borel and Nafzger have known from early on that they were dealing with a special horse, and their approach to win this race since the day after the BC Juvenile was just about perfect. And most importantly, the best part of the Street Sense victory is the fact that this was a tremendous win for racing.. a victory for the forces of good.


(Heading back to the track shortly, but will address the wonderful Hard Spun try seperately in my wrapup, as I spent quite a bit of time with Rick Porter, Larry Jones and Mario Pino as well last night, and have great stuff about their day. They were rightly elated with their colt.)

All that's true but at the same time if Sedgefield fails to carry his trip beyond the other pressers (Teuf', Liquidiity and Stormello), then we may have had a different result. Maybe Borel still finds his way but his run was never interrupted. To me Sedgefield was the key to Street Sense's trip.

[golfer]

"After the press conference, Haskin and I walked to the backstretch ON THE RAIL. The path was like a paved highway compared to even the 2 path. From the 2 path out, the dirt was pockmarked 6-8 inches deep in spots. Any horse that was trying to rally wide at all was doomed to tire quickly. And all anyone has to do to understand Borel's approach is go back to watch his perfect workout last week and the La Troienne where he gave Helen Pitts' Silverinyourpocket the identical ride he gave Street Sense. "


Which is why Gomez taking Thorn Song in the next race (11th) from 4th on the rail (perfect stalking postiion) to 4 wide in the back stretch was SO AGRAVATING! I realize this was just a maiden race, but it's still important to those who may have (mistakenly) wagered on that SOB!

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Tom, you're incorrect. As Branch Rickey wrote, 'Luck' is the residue of design...

After the press conference, Haskin and I walked to the backstretch ON THE RAIL. The path was like a paved highway compared to even the 2 path. From the 2 path out, the dirt was pockmarked 6-8 inches deep in spots. Any horse that was trying to rally wide at all was doomed to tire quickly. And all anyone has to do to understand Borel's approach is go back to watch his perfect workout last week and the La Troienne where he gave Helen Pitts' Silverinyourpocket the identical ride he gave Street Sense.

In the workout, the horse showed his tremendous agility hugging the rail through and out of the turn at a high rate of speed. In the Troienne, and later in the Derby, Borel allowed the field to clear before crossing over to get to the rail. From there, he knew in both cases he would have the best chance to rally taking the chance that the lane would be clear when he needed it to be. In Street Sesne's case, he knew he was on the best horse, and brilliantly anticipated having the path he needed clearing the last group before tackling Hard Spun.

Understand that luck isn't the right description of what happens in these cases. Knowing that horses in front of you have already been doing their running and are likely tiring, Borel regularly makes the correct assumption that those horses will begin to bear out, particularly off the turn. Since Street Sense is just doing his real running at that point, he is physically able to hug the rail while the leg-weary ahead of him float away from the inside straightening for the stretch drive.

Borel and Nafzger have known from early on that they were dealing with a special horse, and their approach to win this race since the day after the BC Juvenile was just about perfect. And most importantly, the best part of the Street Sense victory is the fact that this was a tremendous win for racing.. a victory for the forces of good.


(Heading back to the track shortly, but will address the wonderful Hard Spun try seperately in my wrapup, as I spent quite a bit of time with Rick Porter, Larry Jones and Mario Pino as well last night, and have great stuff about their day. They were rightly elated with their colt.)

I know that luck was the wrong 'verb' but the red sea did part for him. I want to make sure I am taking nothing away from Borel or Street Sense, EVEN IF SS went 7 deep he wins this race, in probably more of a gut wretcher though. I think Bruce said it right in that because of the fantastic overhead view of SS, you could literally see the holes opening up at the opportune time. If he is checked just once, does he get by Hard Spun, who ran unbelievable given a 46.2 quarter (Pino gets 47.2, he is your winner)

You walking the rail is interesting and I am going to watch the races again. I recall speed holding, but maybe it was because 2nd and 3rd place horses were closing into dead speed that gave me the illusion of it playing fair.

Borel is a hell of a rider, cagey is probably the best description. And I absolutely LOVE seeing his emotions afterwards. Not sure if he is a KY boy, but I know it is his circuit so it was absolutely great to see.

That being said given the horse will romp in the Preakness, what is the possibility of Bailey coming out of retirement to ride a horse in the Belmont and instruct all jockeys to STICK THE RAIL and try to prevent a TC winner.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Tom, you're incorrect. As Branch Rickey wrote, 'Luck' is the residue of design...

After the press conference, Haskin and I walked to the backstretch ON THE RAIL. The path was like a paved highway compared to even the 2 path. From the 2 path out, the dirt was pockmarked 6-8 inches deep in spots. Any horse that was trying to rally wide at all was doomed to tire quickly. And all anyone has to do to understand Borel's approach is go back to watch his perfect workout last week and the La Troienne where he gave Helen Pitts' Silverinyourpocket the identical ride he gave Street Sense.

In the workout, the horse showed his tremendous agility hugging the rail through and out of the turn at a high rate of speed. In the Troienne, and later in the Derby, Borel allowed the field to clear before crossing over to get to the rail. From there, he knew in both cases he would have the best chance to rally taking the chance that the lane would be clear when he needed it to be. In Street Sesne's case, he knew he was on the best horse, and brilliantly anticipated having the path he needed clearing the last group before tackling Hard Spun.

Understand that luck isn't the right description of what happens in these cases. Knowing that horses in front of you have already been doing their running and are likely tiring, Borel regularly makes the correct assumption that those horses will begin to bear out, particularly off the turn. Since Street Sense is just doing his real running at that point, he is physically able to hug the rail while the leg-weary ahead of him float away from the inside straightening for the stretch drive.

Borel and Nafzger have known from early on that they were dealing with a special horse, and their approach to win this race since the day after the BC Juvenile was just about perfect. And most importantly, the best part of the Street Sense victory is the fact that this was a tremendous win for racing.. a victory for the forces of good.


(Heading back to the track shortly, but will address the wonderful Hard Spun try seperately in my wrapup, as I spent quite a bit of time with Rick Porter, Larry Jones and Mario Pino as well last night, and have great stuff about their day. They were rightly elated with their colt.)

or...watch nearly every other mount he has. Come on Steve, this is Calvin Borel we are talking about here not Robbie Albarado...if the same ride was given by albarado one could say that it was definitely 'by design' but with Borel the rail skimming ride is just par for the course...it is his preferred place to be in any given race...

[cal828]

Great and very logical analysis Steve. Makes sense that tiring horses would bear out. Looks like Pino could have solved that problem by hugging the rail with Hard Spun, but I guess he is such a massive horse and probably was tiring and therefore bearing out some too that it was not possible. However, it happened, it was great to see Calvin Borel win. Maybe hugging the rail was part of his repertoire, but not all riders seem to know how to pull it off. A lot of people seemed to hate Bailey, but he was one that was able to do it on a regular basis.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by cal828

Great and very logical analysis Steve. Makes sense that tiring horses would bear out. Looks like Pino could have solved that problem by hugging the rail with Hard Spun, but I guess he is such a massive horse and probably was tiring and therefore bearing out some too that it was not possible. However, it happened, it was great to see Calvin Borel win. Maybe hugging the rail was part of his repertoire, but not all riders seem to know how to pull it off. A lot of people seemed to hate Bailey, but he was one that was able to do it on a regular basis.

Street Sense went to the outside of Hard Spun and then ducked down towards the rail. He was in the 2 path for about 6 gallops.....